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Post by Vin Ahrr Vin on Sept 27, 2009 6:20:43 GMT -5
I got this letter from Ken, as did anyone else in the Trollhalla list. I thought I would share it with anyone not on the list. A warning to all members of Trollhalla.
Do not buy the "that company" Gristlegrim Dungeon! To say the product is flawed is a gross understatement. While it looks beautiful, it has some major problems, namely duplication of rooms, typos, plagiarism, and rooms that are insulting and/or simply gross. At a guess, I would say that 3/4 of the writing in the dungeon isn't mine--was never mine, and that some people have no critical judgment, to the point where they can't tell dung from diamonds. Unless I get major revisions, I renounce this product completely. My next letter is to Jim "that guy" with a detailed list of my objections.
This, of course, is what I get for telling him he could rewrite and expand anything he wanted. I didn't have time to rewrite all the rooms in detail. I'm sorry now that I agreed to let Jim and Bill do so.
The product looks good, but it isn't. I didn't see these problems in the smaller versions, but maybe I didn't look closely enough. I can only assume from the fact that Jim sent me a copy that he either didn't think I would ever actually read it from cover to cover, or he doesn't think I can tell the difference between dung and diamonds.
Parts of Gristlegrim are, imho, good. Other parts of it are very, very bad. I didn't write the bad parts, and strongly object to having my name associated with them.
Grimly,
Ken St. Andre I've seen Ken's online version of Gristlegrim and it's pretty good, so I had pondered buying the revised version. Not any more! |
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Post by Toad-Killer-Dog on Sept 27, 2009 6:31:39 GMT -5
d**n thats a pretty clear condemnation, I hope this gets worked out.
I would hate to see a falling out between "that guy" & Troll-God, I don't want to go back to the dark days when nothing new was ever going to come out for T&T again.
Heres hoping this turns out well.
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Sept 27, 2009 7:09:28 GMT -5
*long, low whistle*
Anger. Have some.
I'm sorry... is it wrong that I'm laughing out loud...a lot?
Not at Ken, mind. I just think it's often funny when someone really speaks their mind and doesn't mince words. It doesn't happen often enough.
This. This is precisely why I'm a'feared of OP getting ahold of 5th ed. in the future. Carte blanche can so very easily turn to....a huge, streaming pile of you-know-what, often handed right over to those asking for a nice slice of pie and served up with a gleaming smile.
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Post by jongjungbu on Sept 27, 2009 10:05:50 GMT -5
What I don't understand is why not send the letter first to "that guy", and then later address the public. Seems a little unprofessional. *shrug*
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Post by Aramis of Erak on Sept 27, 2009 11:23:56 GMT -5
Because it's already in release.
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Post by Toad-Killer-Dog on Sept 27, 2009 11:39:05 GMT -5
You have to realize that "Gristle Grim" is really Troll-Gods baby, I mean he has worked on it for Decades now. I mean Liz Danforth ran the "Dungeon of the Swan", "Bear" Peters had "The Dungeon of the Bear" and Ken's big dungeon was/is "Gristle Grim". It's hard to think of a more personal aspect of the game for him.  |
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Post by jongjungbu on Sept 27, 2009 11:49:26 GMT -5
Because it's already in release. Yeah, I get that. But, the way in which he is handling it is less than savvy IMO. |
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Post by mahrundl on Sept 27, 2009 15:39:34 GMT -5
What I don't understand is why not send the letter first to "that guy", and then later address the public. Seems a little unprofessional. *shrug* I can think of a couple of good reasons: * Telling people not to waste their money on what he considers a very inferior product * He'd already talked it up at Trollhalla, and the e-mail was addressed to Trollhallans to retract his previous statements * Wanting to immediately disassociate himself from this version of the product publicly (to the extent that Trollhalla is public) He did say that he would be writing to OP next, so it's not like he's ignoring that. He just did the shorter e-mail first. |
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Post by ragnorakk on Sept 27, 2009 17:11:30 GMT -5
sure. probably just a horrified immediate gut reaction! that his immediate concern is for the trolls hanging out in his Hall is a sign of his temperament.
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Hogscape
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
It's not the years, it's the mileage.
Posts: 2,126
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Post by Hogscape on Sept 28, 2009 2:53:40 GMT -5
I read a glowing report from Ken of his initial reaction to the product on his blog. And it really made me want to buy it - 30 years in the making but make it your own because each 'room' has half a page for you to add details. It's certainly something I would want in the collection.
Any way - a brave and honest thing for Ken to do. He and Jim are very good friends, I doubt very much that it's a decision he took lightly. Remember, Ken is also saving fans from spending their hard-earned gps.
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Hogscape
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
It's not the years, it's the mileage.
Posts: 2,126
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Post by Hogscape on Sept 28, 2009 2:54:15 GMT -5
And another thing! Thanks to Vin for posting!!
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koraq
4th Level Troll
Posts: 355
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Post by koraq on Sept 30, 2009 15:02:21 GMT -5
The reason Ken does things like this is why I like his style. Personal and with real emotions. He wants this to be good.
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Post by mahrundl on Sept 30, 2009 15:19:02 GMT -5
A quick update: revisions are happening. Ken has, last I checked, sent off corrected versions of 4 rooms to "that company".
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Post by mgtremaine on Oct 7, 2009 16:51:01 GMT -5
Thanks for re-posting this note. I was very close to buying this when I dropped into Trollhalla saw Ken's note and decided I better wait and hear more. I got no problems with how Ken handled it, the OP are lucky there was no Troll-Beserk action involved. (mmm blood shed  ) -Mike |
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Post by Vin Ahrr Vin on Oct 12, 2009 8:55:52 GMT -5
A quick update: revisions are happening. Ken has, last I checked, sent off corrected versions of 4 rooms to "that company". Thanks for posting the update. I think of this as "public service" kind of announcements since we have so many readers who aren't also part of the Inner Circle of the Trollgod. Hopefully things will get fixed quickly and the revised dungeon will be ready soon..... |
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