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Post by ProfGremlin on Oct 6, 2009 11:31:31 GMT -5
Hey, folks, I wanted to float an idea past the lot of you and get some other views and opinions. I've been slowly compiling a list of ideas and concepts that I want to build into my game world. I like the concept of clockwork and steampunk but I didn't really want to recreate Space 1899 or Steampunk Musha here. So, I got to thinking, why not have magic actually power devices instead of clockwork or steam?
I'm not quite sure how wide reaching an effect this could, or should, have in a game environment. It's something that could very easily be an underlying, or perhaps even overt, tension where the proponents of magical powered devices are at odds with those who espouse more technological orientations. For example, gunnes could be powered by either blackpowder or explosive runes, cranes could be raised by horse or human power or pushed along by clockwork attached to a magically spinning flywheel.
Should this be more of an underground movement where mages are working at changing the status quo so these devices are more rare or should they actually be the norm with technologists trying to break the stranglehold mages have on infrastructure and offer a more democratic option?
Alternatively, it could just be the way things are and the devices simply offer flavor and interest but are not the focus of the game but rather tools to accomplish the PC's ends, whatever those happen to be.
So, I ask you all, what are your thoughts and opionions? Please, feel free to expand and expound. No need to feel constrained by my limited queries.
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Post by ragnorakk on Oct 6, 2009 11:49:39 GMT -5
Definitely some neat ideas there sir.
Of the top of my head, the biggest argument against using magic to power technology (from the end-user's POV) is susceptibility to anti-magic. In T&T terms, someone could drain my magical car battery by touching the terminals with a kris? I'd stick with the chemical reaction... course then they could jab it with the dagger instead...
I could see some interesting game stories coming out of the tension between tech & magic certainly. Especially so if you made a 'technologist' character type, so that the frisson could be potentially dealt with by PCs interacting with each-other.
I do much like the idea of having wonderous objects that are not necessarily all magic.
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Post by feldrik on Oct 6, 2009 12:27:44 GMT -5
My idea of mage powered tech involves the device being powered by the mage, using him as a battery. It can be extended to non-wizards by giving them a wiz score that can only used to power magetech. This can give rise to badguys using unwilling subjects for their devices. I am not sure about how the interplay between magetech and hardtech would play out, I had some similar ideas but I have not thought on it for a while.
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Post by Toad-Killer-Dog on Oct 6, 2009 13:39:30 GMT -5
Well the level of importance the fact that magic powers machines takes on in your game is really up to you to decide. It could simply be a bit of background information and a reason to include a higher level of technology in your campaign. With of course the benefit that you get to decide exactly what tech you want to include or exclude from your game world. Our it can be an intricate part of the campaign, folded into the narrative. Perhaps the Mages Guild is selectively guides technology, leading society down paths that will lead to their eventual dominance. For example, cheap undead or automatons could devalue unskilled labor in an age when that makes up the largest part of the work force. Forcing the disaffected population into revolution, then the Mages sweep in on the side of either the ruling elite or the revolutionaries ( whomever is winning ) and setting themselves up as the power behind the throne after the conflict is over. Or perhaps the technology needs a constant power supply, now mages are hardly going to spend their days as batteries and the magically void ( Warriors and the like ) are useless in that capacity. However what about those who have magical ability, but have no connection to the Guild or were rejected by the Guild for being unable to fully master wizardry, Rogues. That would really put the "Rogue" in Rogues, hunted and used as living batteries for magical devices Rogues are hated and shunned by both the magically inclined wizards and the magically void general populace. You could expand this to include inherently magical creatures, I can see young dragons or dryads kept in "Charging" cages the very magic that keeps them alive slowly drained to power great devices. Thats all a little dark though and games don't always need to Noir just to be good. Your setting could be the beginning of a Renaissance for your world, a turning point were magic and technology begin to come together. Perhaps the devices are powered by the ambient magic of the world, like broadcast power. I would throw in a little complication, what if magic and iron don't mix well. It would allow you to have all kinds of fun bronze, brass, wooden and stone magical machines puttering and lurching about. Our how about working with the theory that magic and technology don't want to work together and turning it on its head. How about if when you try to mix the two it gives off destructive energy ruining both sides of the machine. Now what if someone managed to harness that energy in a constructive way, tapping into the friction between the two opposing forces to power the very devices that the energy seeks to destroy. There is a very mad science feel about that, that I like. It would also allow for dangerous and unpredictable results from machines that are not properly maintained. Mixing the magical and the mundane to make the miraculous.
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Post by ProfGremlin on Oct 6, 2009 16:49:03 GMT -5
Definitely some neat ideas there sir. Thanks! Role-playing needs a good story to work from and a dynamic background certainly provides a good springboard. I could see some interesting game stories coming out of the tension between tech & magic certainly. Especially so if you made a 'technologist' character type, so that the frisson could be potentially dealt with by PCs interacting with each-other. Hmm... I had been thinking of splitting magic into two distinct arenas - those that focus on creating devices that affect the physical world and those the eschew devices and prefer to work on a more ethereal plane to affect the non-physical. Throwing a Technologist in there as a counterpoint and potential foil could be interesting.
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Post by ProfGremlin on Oct 6, 2009 17:52:07 GMT -5
Or perhaps the technology needs a constant power supply, now mages are hardly going to spend their days as batteries and the magically void ( Warriors and the like ) are useless in that capacity. Both you and Feldrik bring up a good point regarding batteries. I had been considering that personal devices would have to be powered by the user insofar as they would use their own power (Wizardy, Arcane, Mystic...) stat to use the device. I was thinking that the mechanism would most likely be 'blooding' it to create the bridge from the user to the device so the power had a conduit. The device would then store it until use. In order to provide some checks-and-balances on the usage of such devices they could also cost a point of Con for the damage caused in the blooding ritual. No, blood cannot be stored for later use. It's the bridge only not the actual power supply. I would also think that anyone with a Power stat could blood a device though only a specialist could create them. Larger, community oriented devices would have to be powered differently or you'll end up with either legal slavery in some form or seriously haggard apprentices stuck powering them. I suppose it would be a useful way for your criminal population to, literally, payback society for their transgressions. There's also the idea of leylines and nodes for such devices. I would throw in a little complication, what if magic and iron don't mix well. It would allow you to have all kinds of fun bronze, brass, wooden and stone magical machines puttering and lurching about. Now this I like. I had thought of using paired runes for some devices. Combining that with paired materials could provide a realistic alchemical result. For example, going back the the gunnes above, the slug is made of iron and inscribed with one rune while the hammer is constructed of brass and inscribed with the paired rune. Neither one is useful in and of itself but when paired with it's opposite and the correct material they create an explosive combination. In this case, I would consider blooding the hammer rather than each projectile. Perhaps the Power cost would reflect the number of shots the gunne could provide before needing to be blooded again. There is a very mad science feel about that, that I like. It would also allow for dangerous and unpredictable results from machines that are not properly maintained. Mixing the magical and the mundane to make the miraculous. Me too. ::evil grin:: Hmm... just thinking here... your Delver just found a new device on their dungeon-crawl and wants to try it out. They manage to blood it and get it working but have also managed to end up with manna poisoning. Some infectious agent has entered their manna stream and poisoned their Power stat. Until properly diagnosed and treated it'll play merry hobb with any and every use thereof regardless of whether they're trying to power a device or cast a spell. Oh, and they better clean that device too or it could very well happen again.
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Hogscape
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
It's not the years, it's the mileage.
Posts: 2,126
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Post by Hogscape on Oct 6, 2009 22:03:09 GMT -5
I'm on a sci fi game where technology never developed (because magic did instead) guns are powered by magical 'energy pellets' spaceships jump via teleport spell engins and computers have little imps in them. The chaps that used to make deluxe staves now do robots (golems) and assorted other items: CyberSpell Inc. (yep, CSI).
It's 5e only of course - kremm resistance puts the kybosh on magic gear.
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Post by ragnorakk on Oct 7, 2009 12:27:33 GMT -5
Too cool - the runes of oppositional explosiveness - to single that one out of a bunch of good stuff!
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Post by mahrundl on Oct 7, 2009 14:55:01 GMT -5
Certainly sounds like fun, Prof.
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