quoghmyre
7th Level Troll
The Summer Troll
Posts: 1,048
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Post by quoghmyre on Aug 10, 2005 21:09:39 GMT -5
I know this was mentioned on the Walla, but I think it's a good topic.
How do you introduce New Players to RPG and T&T. Gaming and games have changed a lot over the years. Are there ideas and introductions that we would now use to introduce another generation to the fun of T&T.
"Did you like the LOTR movies, how about playing a new fantasy game?"
Maybe we could design a 1 session intro to T&T adventure?
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Post by mahrundl on Aug 11, 2005 1:21:16 GMT -5
The intro to T & T is a good idea, Quoghmyre. There isn't going to be a sample dungeon in the 7th edition rules, as far as I know, so a supplement that introduces the game (especially combat and magic use) would be very useful. So... are you volunteering to start it?
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Post by Vin Ahrr Vin on Aug 11, 2005 6:35:31 GMT -5
I think it would be interesting to have a bunch of pre-gen characters that would represent the Fellowship from the Lord of the Rings, and a dungeon to delve that could be the Mines of Moria. (I know there are copyright issues involved, so it couldn't be marketed but it could be passed around as a free PDF or something.)
This could serve as a nice introduction to newbies who have never played T&T but who are more familiar with "traditional" fantasy literature.
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Post by mahrundl on Aug 11, 2005 7:56:33 GMT -5
I've got to say, Vin, the idea doesn't quite work for me. I think that people would be wanting to do 'Legolas moves' and the like, and I'm not sure that'd be a great starting point.
I'd be happier to see it as a more general dungeon rather than a LOTR specific one. Draw parallels between characters from the Fellowship, for sure, and describe how the dungeon is sort of like the Mines of Moria, but don't use the names for the actual characters and dungeon.
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Post by keltset on Aug 11, 2005 13:33:48 GMT -5
I hafta agree with Mahrundl, Vin. A LOTR rip-off dungeon won't help a player learn to play TandT. What they need is some sorta general dungeon to delve into. Heck, run a solo at them but let a couple of players go in together. Most of the solos are pretty well done and pretty basic.
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Post by mahrundl on Aug 11, 2005 16:23:07 GMT -5
There's an online solo, called Goblin Grotto, which is a fairly basic introduction to combat at least. You can find it here: www.geocities.com/~wyldeblade/tnt/solo/solo_intro.htmIt might be a bit too basic, but it gives an idea of one way such an introduction could be done.
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quoghmyre
7th Level Troll
The Summer Troll
Posts: 1,048
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Post by quoghmyre on Aug 11, 2005 16:39:05 GMT -5
I've done that, it's not really like "playing" game of T&T. I use the Arena, all the major jails have a portal, you do get convicted, you get sentenced to there:-)
I have a standard L1 Adventure I've been running for years. It's called "The Harpies Den", it needs a little work and I'm sure your input would help. Everyone happy with the name? I think ATM we should do it for 5.5 and then upgrade it to v7 when we have the finished rules.
Goals: A resource to introduce new players to T&T. To provide a tutorial for New GM's. To provide the GM's with a good template for designing additional adventures. Move the Characters from Roll-up to L2.
Step 1: Help define the goals!
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Post by mahrundl on Aug 11, 2005 17:15:43 GMT -5
Sounds good to me, Mr. Quoghmyre sir. I'm happy with that as a name; harpies are fairly well known creatures, but not that common, so there's both familiarity and novelty.
Your goals are also good. I'll volunteer to do some work on the 5.5 edition version, and if you like, I'll also begin the 7th edition conversion based on what details I have so far. We can fine-tune the conversion when we get official rules.
Assuming other people like the idea of this, of course. I'm not trying to pre-empt, just to keep things moving...
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Ahnn Uuh
2nd Level Troll
Me like bunnies. Good with ketchup.
Posts: 98
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Post by Ahnn Uuh on Aug 13, 2005 11:31:53 GMT -5
I think having a module that's especially for newbies is a good idea, and I especially like the "solo" done in pairs idea. It should be challenging but doable, and lacking the instant-death monsters, please. If I had been a gaming newbie instead of merely a T&T newbie, running into Medusa and being turned to stone without a chance of escape during my first adventure would have been a major turnoff. No one wants to lose their first character on their first adventure!
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Post by mahrundl on Aug 13, 2005 18:05:22 GMT -5
Yes, the instant death stuff can be rather off-putting. Even 'make this SR or die' is probably too much for an introductory setting. I think that 'make this SR or take x damage' is better for this. *Maybe* one killer room, with a sign on the door saying 'Certain death awaits those who enter', is appropriate to introduce the concept, but that's all I'd do. To emphasise the danger, we could have lots of blood spattered on the floor in front of the door, or similar. After that, anyone who goes in deserves what they get.
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quoghmyre
7th Level Troll
The Summer Troll
Posts: 1,048
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Post by quoghmyre on Aug 14, 2005 16:51:02 GMT -5
I think L1ers are easy enough to kill without introducing such diabolical traps. I like to bleed them 1 Con point at a time:-) Do you think we should have a set of pre-rolled and equipped characters? For L1 I encourage each player to run 2 characters, to "Play" one but have the second there just in case they die. Or do you start beginners with 1 character? Lets start at an old Tavern. It's a time honoured way of getting the players to introduce the Characters and what the relationships are between themselves. So we need a good tavern discription. New or Used? I suspect we all have a number of taverns. City Book I or SA had some ready made ones, but I can't find either. For this Adventure I use the old All Roads Lead to Rome ploy. So we need 3 or 4 missions. Each of these encounters should introduce the SR method and start the AP. Keeping it safe and lots of role-playing. 1. Old man approaches the party, his young daughter has been kidnapped. 2. They over hear of an old abandoned treasure pit been found 3. They notice a dark and sinister hooded man watching them from the shadows 4. SR's on LK and CHR reveals these missions one at a time until they act on one. The goal is to get them out of the pub into the wilderness, scouting for clues.
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Post by mahrundl on Aug 14, 2005 17:33:57 GMT -5
Some good starting ideas there, Quog. Here are some thoughts of mine: One problem with pre-rolled characters is that the players don't get the experience of doing it themselves. They are less invested in the character. Also, we're trying to teach them the system, so we really *want* them to do this stuff for themselves. Also, showing them how easy it is to create a character is a big plus. Having said that, having an example character could be useful, for those cases where the player just wants to get straight into it. I usually only start with one character, since my campaign tends to be less 'killer' than some... We could have the pre-rolled character as the backup, perhaps. The Tavern is always a good place to start. I like it. Make sure the booze is bad though, or they might decide to just sit there and keep drinking! I think we should make our own Tavern rather than reusing one - unless someone has one ready to go? It's not a big job, and will enable us to place things exactly as we like. Option 4 could be a reward offered by the local lord to capture a highwayman, or kill a wild animal, that is menacing the the town. The carrot for that one is the possibility of rising in the local political structure, being granted land, or similar. Or just a nice cash reward, or maybe a 'legendary' weapon (very slightly magical or just famous for its history). Option 5, if they don't take on anything else, is the traditional attack on the town by raiders. It leaves out the wilderness tracking bit, so it's less optimal, but it means they have no real way of not participating. And hopefully they will pursue fleeing raiders back to their lair.
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Ahnn Uuh
2nd Level Troll
Me like bunnies. Good with ketchup.
Posts: 98
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Post by Ahnn Uuh on Aug 20, 2005 14:43:12 GMT -5
How about if someone is doing heinous deeds in their (the players') names? Maybe there's even a group trying to hunt the party down, which would add nice confusion while they try to find out who is masquerading as them!
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Post by mahrundl on Aug 20, 2005 17:50:50 GMT -5
An excellent idea in general, Ahnn Uuh, but maybe not the best for an introductory adventure. The players will be trying to keep track of the rules of a new system; I don't know that a complicated plot is a good idea on top of that. Individual puzzles and riddles, for sure - but not a convoluted plot as well. Keep it simple for the introduction.
But I might be wrong; what do others think? In any case, if you wanted to flesh that particular scenario out a bit more, it could be a decent adventure in its own right.
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quoghmyre
7th Level Troll
The Summer Troll
Posts: 1,048
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Post by quoghmyre on Aug 22, 2005 0:07:05 GMT -5
I agree, lets ensure they have to roll up their own characters, so we won't worry about providing some. I like that! (maybe we can provide some online as a separate project)
While it sounds a little contrived. I do like to have 1 or 2 deaths at L1. Why, firstly I don't like killing high level characters as the players have invested a lot in them. So as characters go up the levels they become "safer". That's not to say they don't die, just that when they do it's because the player has done something really silly. But for first time players and L1ers I think it's good to see a characters death, it give those that survive a lot of value. I've played in a few games where it became clear the GM wasn't going to allow us to die, our playing and the game deteriorated, the life of the characters lost value. Death of 1 or 2, L1 characters also illustrates this world has serious consequences and if you aren't careful they will die. I would also note that my characters only occasionally survived T&T Solo adventures.
I agree, no instant death rooms:-P, but it should be deep enough that if the players insist on going into every room, fighting every monster, get caught in most traps then most "average" characters will die? How about that?
I think all those scenarios are excellent and a good next step would be to build 2 WM charts. One for the trip from the Nameless Tavern to the Cave mouth and one for underground. This will give us some more ideas to incorporate into the initial dialogues and NPCs and ideas for the underground habitat.
comments please...
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