Outlaw Mess

[Branderwydd /|\]

Finally, many thanks to everyone for keeping things civil during the recent "that company" issue.

That is the main reason I frequent the Bridge so much. Besides the fact that it's T&T, the civility is unusually high compared to the usual for web forums. I'm sure you all know what I mean. The Bridge trumps all!

looks like mahrundl and jongjungbu beat me to the punch, 'cause i was planning on saying the same thing. following the posts at that other forum regarding OP is frustrating because it is full of what i call 'needless douchebaggery'. an exalt to all of the knights of the trollbridge (if i could) for being able to discuss things - even as sticky as the OP situation - without resorting to the usual internet BS. as said, in addition to T&T, that's what makes this the best forum on the 'net.

[hrrrothgarrr]

Hear! Hear!

[kopf]

Peryton said that I need to come back and be cuddly. I'm not so sure.

Nov 22, 2009 7:49:56 GMT -5 Hogscape said:

...Trollhalla seems to be pretty vitriolic but Trollbridge is quite laid back with most posters not being privy to the venom directed at OP...I maintain that OP were still the only entity working hard to promote T&T...

I maintain that a lot of Trollhalla is full of artists, of various media. Not publishers and game theorists-. Passions run high. And it is only when someone disrespects others effort and art does it get onto our nerves around there. Granted we get the usual non-artists, but either they adapt or their vices get them thinking about more fulfilling activities. "that company" owner often presented himself as an artist; but, in my book, that is becoming less and less justified over the past week. As nine out of ten of his post over the last three years has been product placement, the word "spammer" is coming to my mind.

As for other efforts to that of "that company" I can think of three firms that support T&T, without plagiarizing and disrespecting others. One of them happens to be my own firm, which has published T&T material, paying its artists and contributors, despite what others have claimed to be low revenues. For the record, Kopfy Caverns, has made a profit, and FBI is due some more tribute.

As it happens they had some problems and I see the use of copyrighted art and me editing Kopfy's work as two separate issues.

Which tie into a bigger one. See below.

If OP is gone, and I'm not sure they are, we need to find another avenue to promote the game we love.

No one around our game should be 'too big to to fail' so to speak. I think every real capitalist around the shop would agree. This little red herring aside, it's not really about that. From knowing the ownr of "that company" rather intimately, at least from the on-line IRC and publishing association, it's about one company dominating the product or not.

Ken can't do it - he's the writer and in full-time employment. Rick won't do it - to do so would be a huge financial risk for a small company. Fiery Dragon will do their bit, in their own way, appealing to a small group of T&T fans.

So that leaves us. And 'us' includes Kopfy.

Thak you for the inclusion. I hope to stand up to the laid back standards of membership you impose. Just remember that I have been publishing T&T before your Skolani cycle came to the fore. I am a fan of yours, I await your next product, a lot of your dismissive efforts of my past works have been a little insulting.

Note: Not a single puppy was killed in the making of this post.

[machfront]

Nov 22, 2009 11:29:24 GMT -5 Hogscape said:

Thanks Losthereic, I'm Mike Hill, thanks for clearing that up. I can sleep at night now!

You didn't realize you were Mike Hill? I can see how that may lead to some sleepless nights.

[machfront]

Nov 22, 2009 14:40:50 GMT -5 mahrundl said:

Finally, many thanks to everyone for keeping things civil during the recent "that company" issue.

Can I run screaming and set random fires now? *twitches*


Seriously, it was nice. I was a bit worried that all of us might be a little tense and start biting each others' heads off, including myself, but we all seemed to keep our collective cool well enough.

[machfront]

branderwydd,
Someone wished me to pass along to you to check your PMs at RPG.net.

[Hogscape]

Nov 23, 2009 0:24:30 GMT -5 machfront said:

Nov 22, 2009 11:29:24 GMT -5 Hogscape said:

Thanks Losthereic, I'm Mike Hill, thanks for clearing that up. I can sleep at night now!

You didn't realize you were Mike Hill? I can see how that may lead to some sleepless nights.

If people don't shout it at me every now and then I do get a tad confused.

[Hogscape]

Nov 22, 2009 19:50:56 GMT -5 kopf said:

Thak you for the inclusion. I hope to stand up to the laid back standards of membership you impose. Just remember that I have been publishing T&T before your Skolari cycle came to the fore. I am a fan of yours, I await your next product, a lot of your dismissive efforts of my past works have been a little insulting.

I'm ashamed about that. Since it's too late to take back any harsh comments, I'll offer my apologies instead, as a poor-man's second choice.

[Hogscape]

Nov 22, 2009 12:13:01 GMT -5 Peryton said:

Nov 22, 2009 7:13:30 GMT -5 Hogscape said:

Kopfy. No hard feelings from my perspective. I re-wrote the bits that were clearly a 'TAG' cut and paste...

...TAG and T&T are different. I own TAG Spacers but I don't understand it - so I have no doubt that my judgment was coloured when I tried to convert it to T&T.

Not that it changes any of the relevant points, but I just wanted to add that the New Khazan I saw was written for T&T before Kopfy ever came up with TAG. There shouldn't have been any material from TAG Spacers in there.

Either TAG Spacers or some other project. Big chunks, and it just didn't make sense alongside the T&T stuff.

[mgtremaine]

Sooo not to throw more gasoline on the thread but...

I heard back from Rick on Saturday regarding the email I sent him upthread. I waited to post this just to see if anything was going to happen regarding this or not with out tipping anyone off. But here is the good news and the really f-ing crazy news.

Good News:

I intend to spend more time creating pdfs for sale. Thank you for any advice and help you can give me.

So Rick is interested in expanding into the PDF market and the points I made about the front page of driverthrurpg/rpgnow might help. He also talked about the SA archives and says he is considering trying to bring them out but it will be a lot of work and probably some money back to the original submitters since FBI had not rights to republish. Heck it was 1979 who would have wrote a contract that covered PDF .

Crazy News:

"that company" never had the right to sell T&T 4th edition, any edition of Sorcerers Apprentice, Uncle Uglys, Monsters Monsters, T&T First Edition, or any other FBI products as PDFs or in any other fashion. Was he doing this?

That was the bit that made it clear that "that guy" is way beyond redemption on this matter. Rick told him to stop printing some of this material before and obviously he was ignored. I sent Rick links to all the offerings that are/were FBI products. It's a matter for lawyers if "that guy" refuses to stop at this point. One of the reasons I asked about POD fulfillment was for the record keeping. It seems trivial to track how many copies have been sold since One Bookshelf and Lulu should have all the information required.

So there it is I figured many of you would like to know.

-Mike

[ragnorakk]

ugh... i'm pretty numbed on the OP side of things...

...but on the brighter side - fingers crossed on QUALITY RULE PDFS -
QUALITY EARLY SOLOS - Yowza! I'd give him mine if I had any!

[ragnorakk]

Nov 22, 2009 15:21:29 GMT -5 Branderwydd /|\ said:

Finally, many thanks to everyone for keeping things civil during the recent "that company" issue.

That is the main reason I frequent the Bridge so much. Besides the fact that it's T&T, the civility is unusually high compared to the usual for web forums. I'm sure you all know what I mean. The Bridge trumps all!

looks like mahrundl and jongjungbu beat me to the punch, 'cause i was planning on saying the same thing. following the posts at that other forum regarding OP is frustrating because it is full of what i call 'needless douchebaggery'. an exalt to all of the knights of the trollbridge (if i could) for being able to discuss things - even as sticky as the OP situation - without resorting to the usual internet BS. as said, in addition to T&T, that's what makes this the best forum on the 'net.

I go to RPG.net when I want to drop a (usually dumb) question into a large pool of people to see what floats up... but yeah, for actual conversation? I never get my hopes up there...

[jongjungbu]

Nice work there, Mike! Have an exalt for helping move things forward in the PDF market. Yes, more solos in PDF! That will do great for my trips that I want to take some T&T solos but have limited space since I bring a carry-on only. Whip out the laptop, some PDFs, and the little programs that have resurfaced recently and I'm in for the long haul. Well, that's not my ideal format to play a solo. I really much prefer having pencil and paper even considering how techno-geek I am. But, this would be great for those times.

[koraq]

Excellent work, Mike! Exalted.

I'm not surprised by the OP news.

[Peryton]

Nov 22, 2009 14:40:50 GMT -5 mahrundl said:

Welcome back also to Peryton! <mock frown> You need to increase your posting rate, young lady! </mock frown> Seriously, it would be nice to hear more from you, both in your own right and as one of the few female members of the Trollbridge. This can be a bit of a boy's club sometimes, largely I suspect due to there being so many boys here...

<cringe>Sorry!</cringe> So far I haven't had a whole lot to say on the T&T boards because, while I love playing the game, I haven't done much of the GM-side stuff that really gets you talking about mechanics. I expect that'll change now. We're setting up some projects that will certainly get my hands grimy with d6-oil from the inner workings of T&T, so I'm sure I'll have more to talk about before long.