Outlaw Mess

[uburoi]

Nov 24, 2009 9:30:12 GMT -5 @shipy said:

It is somewhat comical that people think "that company" is motivated by GREED. I was publishing T&T for years when it was losing money. Now that it actually makes money, every penny it makes goes back into creating and publishing new T&T material. I don't publish T&T for the money, I never have. I have all the money I need. If I did I would have stopped long ago. Its a hobby of mine. It is something I love to do. If someone made me stop selling T&T, I would still publish T&T and give it away for FREE.

Why steal artwork then?

Why take a module from an old copy of Dungeon, re-write it and pass it off as your own work?

Why publish material you had no right to - for profit?

I'm sorry, "that guy" - I'm very disappointed in what you've done to T&T recently. Like Tori B. said on the RPG.net thread - we're the underdogs, we've all supported this game ourselves in so many ways out of love, and to hear what we've heard stings all the deeper for it.

You have some great stuff in print - I'd go over to the Outlaw site and order stuff in a heartbeat. I spent over a hundred dollars year-before-last on OP stuff. But I can't right now. Not with what I know you've done and seem so unrepentant about.

With FBI just re-publishing old material, and Fiery Dragon seemingly no longer interested, you're IT, dude. You're the source. I know you're a lawyer, and a thread on RPG.net is nowhere near a court of law, but the circumstantial evidence doesn't look good.

Maybe you've concluded you're legally in the right... but, man, as more and more of this comes out you're alienating your customers - me, for one. I'd give you another hundred dollars if I didn't feel sleazy about it.

Just my opinion, mind you, but if it were me I'd apologize to those concerned, make some kind of restitution to the artists and writers, and carry on.

[ragnorakk]

clusterfuuu...uun! ;D

Nov 24, 2009 9:30:12 GMT -5 @shipy said:

It is somewhat comical that people think "that company" is motivated by GREED.

I can only speak for myself, and acknowledge that we don't know each other from Adam, but as far as the GREED things go, I never thought you were getting rich of OP. IMO it's not about that, and I'm not in the habit of telling people what to do or how to run their businesses. At this point though, I'd like to ask you what the word 'Official' means in your statement above, if you are inclined to explain.

[machfront]

**The following is edited, because, while I still feel just the same way I felt when I originally posted, I realized I let my emotions get the better of me and I could have set down my thoughts in a more diplomatic way, and just generally less ugly manner.**

Nov 24, 2009 9:30:12 GMT -5 @shipy said:

It is somewhat comical that people think "that company" is motivated by GREED. I was publishing T&T for years when it was losing money. Now that it actually makes money, every penny it makes goes back into creating and publishing new T&T material. I don't publish T&T for the money, I never have.

Oh, I don't think it was about greed.
Quite frankly, I'm surprised OP has ever made money.
Though I'd still like to hear your explanation of the deal with the art, why you would take folks' creative endeavors and publish them without first asking them, and also the strongly apparent case of blatant plagiarism regarding the Vince Garcia"Djinni" solo(s).

Nov 24, 2009 9:30:12 GMT -5 @shipy said:

Those earlier editions mentioned (1st, 4th, M!M!) have been published by "that company" since around 2000 to 2002. So I’m not sure where people get that those items suddenly appeared on my web site recently for the first time. Items do appear and disappear on my web site when they out of stock, but they always return. As for Rick not knowing about it, that would be wrong.

Sounds like Rick disagrees. Though, I suppose this is a moot point now, considering the recent revelations concerning the trademark on T&T.

As has already been stated:
You've been given chance after chance. You've been awarded the benefit of the doubt many times over your worth.
In my opinon, "that company" are not so important as for the community to sacrifice honor for support.

It didn't have to be this way. You could have and should have come out from the very beginning and explained yourself. Perhaps you'd have been heard.
But what seems to tally up from incidents prior and of late, I at least, don't feel I could ever justify support of your business any longer.
I'll instead turn my attention, support and wallet to those here and elsewhere that self-publish their creative efforts for T&T.

[Deleted]

I've also heard that "that company" guy slaps old people around, beats small innocent children and recently stole lunch money from a Nun. Its just despicable I say!

[quoghmyre]

Hmm, so this is how you treat your customers and contributors. Yes, we are old and yes, you have slapped us around, yes you have hurt children setting such a bad example. And as to stealing from the church, I would recommend a dose of old time Repentance.

Wake up, your ongoing behaviour and foolishness is costing you day after day.

[machfront]

Nov 28, 2009 13:04:53 GMT -5 @shipy said:

I've also heard that "that company" guy slaps old people around, beats small innocent children and recently stole lunch money from a Nun. Its just despicable I say!

No. See.... this attitude presupposes that you've never done anything wrong, which is, as has been shown and as is known, is not the case at all, now is it?

Good job trying to play the martyr, though.
Well...actually it was a poor job, but still.

[ragnorakk]

Come on - this is just dumb! Nobody's making you out to be "The Big Bad Guy". This kind of insincere horseshite just makes you come across worse IMO.

[kopf]

Nov 28, 2009 13:04:53 GMT -5 @shipy said:

I've also heard that "that company" guy slaps old people around, beats small innocent children and recently stole lunch money from a Nun. Its just despicable I say!

Kewl it with the pantomime villain routine. You sound like the Hamburglar in a bad McDonald's commercial, but he's more eloquent. Apologize to those that you are able to and get on with making your T&T products out of the goodness of your heart, as you stated earlier. You have at least one talented person in our community backing you.

Then again, I could be using reverse psychology. And yes this is just one big persecution of you. And the best way to respond would be to be continue to play innocent and blame everybody else for as long as you can. Yes, that's the ticket, that's what will ensure that everyone will contribute to your efforts in the future for sure... .

[machfront]

Still no apology or explanation. Fascinating.

Oh, and by the way James, your childish and "anonymous" s***bag antics at Trollhalla are lost on no one.

[Vin Ahrr Vin]

Just a reminder that it would be swell if we could keep the conversation civil. No name-calling, please.

Hopefully, James will explain himself in the right time and place. He doesn't owe most of us any sort of apology, actually. He would be directing this toward Ken, Rick, and any artists who were directly involved.

Let's try to play nice and see what develops.

[machfront]

Roger that.

[captainrufus]

I hadn't heard of these sad affairs till a quick reading of RPGnet I do every now and again. (I really want to slap the stupid out of many of them, but its hard since they seem to mean well and all. Its just... URRGHH!!)

Reminded me of here.

Interestingly enough I recently ordered a few books from Outlaw just to check them out. (And I had no idea Delver's Pack was out.)

The back cover of Gamma Trollworld gave me some pause to be honest. Before I had a chance to read it (and find what a disappointment it was) I was almost thinking about buying a copy for one of my Fallout playing friends. And it, and a bunch of other books were gone from the site.

I just figured they were out of stock or something, and moved on. Reading GT and prepping to do an in depth review of it and why it made a SAAAD PAAANDA. (See South Park for the reference.)

Get off a long holiday work week (holidays mean more hours in the casino biz!) and want to chill with some net fun.

Only to be greeted with Games Workshop going Leatherface on the Internet including the mighty Boardgamegeek, and now apparently "that company" is doing some very shady if not outright illegal and immoral practices?

Say it aint so. Say it aint so!

And from a totally selfish point of view I now feel as if I do my review it is gonna look like I am kicking OP when they are down to either fit in with the cool kids, or just as some form of revenge against them.

I would like to say we should wait and see, but the info shown so far seems pretty damning. (And the Terminator on the back of GT was throwing up alarm bells too. As was the use of the word Hobbit in said magazine, but to a lesser degree.)

I hope we find out the whole truth and the mess gets sorted out properly though.

Hmm.. maybe my review will turn into me just making my own dang T*T post apocalypse game instead. I did get that Mercenaries, Spies, and Private Eyes set for 5 bucks and a pair of modules a few months back. Should be easy to extrapolate from there..

Maybe by that point someone can tell me when gaming is happy again.

[uburoi]

Nov 30, 2009 7:18:10 GMT -5 captainrufus said:

Games Workshop going Leatherface on the Internet including the mighty Boardgamegeek

Huh! Hadn't heard about THAT one.

PM me if you would and let me know what's going on with this.

BTW - WE are going to make gaming happy again. We're going to make gaming, T&T gaming anyway, happy if we have to load it up on atropine, Prozac and caffeine, stuff it in the back of the car, drive cross-country to Disney and hot-glue cotton candy into its hands.

[feldrik]

I am not sure what you mean by 'going leatherface'. It sounds bad, I could take a guess but that would just be my bias speaking.

[quoghmyre]

Everything must go, LOL

T&T NEWS UPDATE FOR DECEMBER 2009: 1.0:
T&T NEWS -- NEW SALE: -- All this month we will be having a X-mas sale. That means most of our T&T items will be listed for half price or cheaper. So if you are looking to buy something, this month would be the best time to do so.