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Post by jongjungbu on Nov 21, 2009 17:14:24 GMT -5
Re: the silencing over at Trollhalla...I can kind of understand though. I mean look at that RPG.net thread is a million pages long. I'm guessing Ken doesn't want Trollhalla flooded with the same negativity. Even though it's well-founded negativity, it's not a very fun atmosphere. *shrug*
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Nov 21, 2009 20:13:17 GMT -5
branderwydd,
Well...that's...well. Yeah. What can one say about that other than: "That pretty much seals it." Excepting the teeny tiny ultra-slim possibility that Vince Garcia and Daniel Horne both wrestled their work back from WotC and then both of them gave the adventure over full cloth to..."that guy" of all people (I can hear them saying "Who?" now.), then this is a done deal. A blatant and absolute one. One that required effort and forethought, etc.
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kopf
3rd Level Troll
Posts: 211 
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Post by kopf on Nov 21, 2009 22:08:08 GMT -5
A couple of things need to cleared up here.
But first, while I have already known that there are very few "fans" of mine here, I apologize for often lumping you all together in my anger. Hogscape, I specifically apologize to you calling you "Hogwash," in honesty I have been reading your nickname that way and thought it was your moniker.
First off, Hogscape, I specifically asked "that company"'s owner that you not edit anything of mine about 14 months ago. This was after you "edited" an article of mine and re-wrote it into a potty-humor classic keeping spiffy turns of phrase that I had written, but changing the whole meaning of anything written at your whim. The publisher assured me that the article had been fixed and the situation would never happen again. I asked for a copy of the revised article and never received proof of it.
As for other comments on the "New Khazan" piece:
Mr. Hill, I don't want to eat you. Your mystical space travel was nicely done. As for your "clearing up" of my confusion, I have had four people read compare the two. Three people reading your work and mine Side-By-Side have concluded that they did not like your choices and found some confusion on your part as to the relationship of as to the relation of your Merchant Princes to my Trading Alliance. Two found the use of the term "Imperi Imperium" a bit silly, as opposed to my "Imperfi Territories, known as the Imperium." All four did not like the Trollani sequence and aristocratic-societal model, that you provided and preferred my original three factions of the Ogrish Horde, the Imperfi Territories, and the Trading Alliance as they were originally written.
As for a statement that there was a "massive re-write." There was some significant additions, but 80% of the work was my original text, while various catch phrases repeated were from my notes submitted later. Though every reference of the "Imperfi" was changed to "Imperi" and "Ogrish" to "Ogri." There was also the change of "Dwarves- known as great asteroid miners..." to "Dwarves- Known and the Great Asteroid Miners (...'Rhoids..)...". Other minor little changes from "Redi-Gunk" to "Redi-Kibble;" changing scarecrows from bubble-heads to not having heads; and not finally changing the Black Hobbits from T&T 5th edition and Monsters! Monsters! to Stygian Hobbits, replacing my Stygian Leprechauns.
In the end though, my displeasure was not overall with Hogscape's rewrite. Just the lack of appropriate credit, and the resulting high-handed hubris of him and the publisher at my displeasure at their combined efforts. Mind everyone, the four people looking at the works, did not dislike Hogscape's work, they did not like the mixture of the two works. Instead, I really like to see what Hogscape's space-fantasy would look like without my material. I am sure it would be at least good enough to be published at the re-formed "that company".
I'd also like to thank Hrothgar, Koraq, and Machfront for being bigger men than me, when I was feeling rather isolated and attacked on more than one side. I'd ask that sometimes consider that I am often actually trying to make a joke, and to consider the context of what I talking about. As I am not here to win everyone over, see you all in another few months.
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Post by sonofthor on Nov 21, 2009 23:50:54 GMT -5
I'm just now finding out about this stuff. I really hope it's just a misunderstanding and can be cleared up for all parties concerned. Let's keep Trollworld a happy place!  |
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Post by Porkbelly on Nov 22, 2009 6:40:50 GMT -5
Wow, this is news. I'm still catching up on this but "that company" website is still open for business, minus several books - I hope all is explained.
My sympathies to all OP contributors whose names are dragged into these allegations. I sincerely hope this does not have any lasting negative impact on the T&T community.
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Nov 22, 2009 7:09:20 GMT -5
sonofthor, Well, it's looking highly unlikely that it's a misunderstanding. Though, there's a silver lining. It looks as though this is putting a spark to folks to self-publish and get their creative stuff for T&T out there. Also, it would seem that, even for T&T as niche as it is..."there's no such thing as bad publicity", considering the number of folks that have joined here and Trollhalla in the past number of days and some folks on the RPG.net thread mentioning that they're now taking a look at T&T. So, it's not all bad. |
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Hogscape
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
It's not the years, it's the mileage.
Posts: 2,126
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Post by Hogscape on Nov 22, 2009 7:13:30 GMT -5
Kopfy. No hard feelings from my perspective. I re-wrote the bits that were clearly a 'TAG' cut and paste. If I'd known about you not wanting me to edit your submissions, I cretainly would have complied with your wishes. For two reasons - because that's what you wanted and re-writing an extensive piece of work is very time consuming.
I acknowledge that we don't have anything in common on the sense of humour front. If you were a customer I'd say, if you don't like it, don't buy it. As you're the originating artist, that's a bit trickier.
TAG and T&T are different. I own TAG Spacers but I don't understand it - so I have no doubt that my judgment was coloured when I tried to convert it to T&T.
I have no doubt that "that guy" would either; a) change the credits for New Khazan or b) remove the item from sale (if, indeed, he is still in business).
All the best
Mike
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Hogscape
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
It's not the years, it's the mileage.
Posts: 2,126
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Post by Hogscape on Nov 22, 2009 7:49:56 GMT -5
In addition to Kopfy's comments (above) - I don't think anyone at Trollbridge would say that they were, or were not fans of Kopfy. Trollhalla seems to be pretty vitriolic but Trollbridge is quite laid back with most posters not being privy to the venom directed at OP.
I maintain that OP were still the only entity working hard to promote T&T. As it happens they had some problems and I see the use of copyrighted art and me editing Kopfy's work as two separate issues. If OP is gone, and I'm not sure they are, we need to find another avenue to promote the game we love.
Ken can't do it - he's the writer and in full-time employment. Rick won't do it - to do so would be a huge financial risk for a small company. Firey Dragon will do their bit, in their own way, appealing to a small group of T&T fans.
So that leaves us. And 'us' includes Kopfy.
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Post by mgtremaine on Nov 22, 2009 10:00:42 GMT -5
If the "that company" store at Lulu is gone how is he doing fulfillment from his website?
-Mike
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lostheretic
2nd Level Troll
Unpublished Author, Published Poet
Posts: 74
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Post by lostheretic on Nov 22, 2009 10:24:57 GMT -5
Mike,
If the storefront is down that does not mean he doesn't have an account still. He can order copies in bulk but not have the print books freely available.
Hogscape,
You're Mike Hill, correct? Just to clear things up, I don't think anyone has a problem with your involvement in New Khazan. From what I understand of the situation, you were simply asked to edit certain elements and you did. The problem is that Kopfy, the author, was never approached about these edits for approval. Effectively, the publisher produced something under the authors name that was not his own work.
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Hogscape
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
It's not the years, it's the mileage.
Posts: 2,126
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Post by Hogscape on Nov 22, 2009 11:29:24 GMT -5
Thanks Losthereic, I'm Mike Hill, thanks for clearing that up. I can sleep at night now!
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koraq
4th Level Troll
Posts: 355
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Post by koraq on Nov 22, 2009 12:07:09 GMT -5
Hogscape, I agree that when OP goes off-line, the main publisher support for T&T goes off-line and that means somebody else will have to step up. That was why I posted this: trollbridge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1168A summary: the OD&D people have started to publish things personally using Lulu, and even created a storefront collecting some of these publisher/individuals. We as T&T fans should do the same! A focal point publication collecting shorter pieces for those who wont start their own line is probably a good idea as well. Tori Berquist have talked about starting a magazine, and I have Scribus and know how to use it and have a spell checker and know how to use it. I'm not against the idea of starting something myself. I am going to try to write some stuff myself and suggest you all join in. |
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Post by Peryton on Nov 22, 2009 12:13:01 GMT -5
Kopfy. No hard feelings from my perspective. I re-wrote the bits that were clearly a 'TAG' cut and paste... ...TAG and T&T are different. I own TAG Spacers but I don't understand it - so I have no doubt that my judgment was coloured when I tried to convert it to T&T. Not that it changes any of the relevant points, but I just wanted to add that the New Khazan I saw was written for T&T before Kopfy ever came up with TAG. There shouldn't have been any material from TAG Spacers in there. |
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Post by mahrundl on Nov 22, 2009 14:40:50 GMT -5
A couple of things: Welcome back to Branderwydd, Boozer and Kopf! Long time no see, chaps! Welcome back also to Peryton! <mock frown> You need to increase your posting rate, young lady! </mock frown> Seriously, it would be nice to hear more from you, both in your own right and as one of the few female members of the Trollbridge. This can be a bit of a boy's club sometimes, largely I suspect due to there being so many boys here...  Finally, many thanks to everyone for keeping things civil during the recent "that company" issue. |
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Post by jongjungbu on Nov 22, 2009 15:05:20 GMT -5
A couple of things: Welcome back to Branderwydd, Boozer and Kopf! Long time no see, chaps! Welcome back also to Peryton! <mock frown> You need to increase your posting rate, young lady! </mock frown> Seriously, it would be nice to hear more from you, both in your own right and as one of the few female members of the Trollbridge. This can be a bit of a boy's club sometimes, largely I suspect due to there being so many boys here... Finally, many thanks to everyone for keeping things civil during the recent "that company" issue. That is the main reason I frequent the Bridge so much. Besides the fact that it's T&T, the civility is unusually high compared to the usual for web forums. I'm sure you all know what I mean. The Bridge trumps all!  |
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