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Post by mgtremaine on Dec 4, 2009 14:51:52 GMT -5
Did anyone else see Rick's post at RPG.net? I'll re-post it here.
Important to know that he is actively looking at the issues. Which I think is a good thing. [Although I'd still like the for use with Tunnels & Trolls global ok. But that is a different problem which I'm sure we can work out.]
-Mike
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Post by ProfGremlin on Dec 4, 2009 15:54:58 GMT -5
Did anyone else see Rick's post at RPG.net? I'll re-post it here. I'm glad to see that Rick is addressing the issue and he's made his position quite clear. I'd like to know a little more about the requirements he mentioned for placing the statement "For use with Tunnels and Trolls" on a publication. If I ever get around to putting some of my ideas to paper perhaps I'll send him an email just to make sure I have my "Ducks in a Row". |
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Post by wilowisp on Dec 4, 2009 16:15:58 GMT -5
Well, personally I HATE this. Last night I was looking over my shelf and a half of Palladium materials: Palladium Fantasy, TMNT, Ninjas & Super Spies, After the Bomb, Heroes Unlimited, Beyond the Supernatural, Etc. I've picked up ALOT of it; but ALL of it from used book shops for a steal. I've never contributed a red cent to the company, and really don't plan to. I don't really ever do much with it, although I've read it and "like the system" as much as someone can who's never really played. I'm offended by Palladium's refusal to allow fans to post fan material*. I haven't published much on the web-10+ items or so, mostly modules for Gamma World- but I resent feeling like I CAN'T share my labors of love if I want to. The very nature of a RPG is that it is a tool kit to create. I have a number of T&T ideas bouncing around my head right now, and in a few months I suspect I'm going to post a few scenarios on my blog. I'm going to be ticked off royally if I discover I can't do that.  ________________________ * I am open to changing my mind however. Palladium just recently began to at least SELL .PDFs of their materials on the web. Its small, but it is a start............ |
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Post by jongjungbu on Dec 4, 2009 17:46:43 GMT -5
Did anyone else see Rick's post at RPG.net? I'll re-post it here. I'm glad to see that Rick is addressing the issue and he's made his position quite clear. I'd like to know a little more about the requirements he mentioned for placing the statement "For use with Tunnels and Trolls" on a publication. If I ever get around to putting some of my ideas to paper perhaps I'll send him an email just to make sure I have my "Ducks in a Row". Same here. I never got an answer back on my free solos, well not from Rick. I got an answer from Ken. Because they are free and have no copyrighted, stolen, or unoriginal material, I think they care not. But, I might need to toss him an email about my next solo that I may want to self-publish or something. |
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Post by feldrik on Dec 4, 2009 23:34:33 GMT -5
I saw that post and I supplied a link to these froums as part of the response.
I also suggested that is T&T 5E were available as print on demand it would be good for buisness.
In the long run perhaps some sort of request for permission to publish free, unofficial fan material could get the T&T biz moving again. If the liscence holders can show evidence for a market then more official material will be produced...maybe even by us.
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Dec 5, 2009 6:59:44 GMT -5
 Where is that post from? I didn't see it in the "that company" thread. I looked a few pages back and didn't spot another T&T thread... I'm glad Rick is getting more involved and speaking his mind. I'm a little sad that T&T isn't as "open" as it first seemed. Should have known it was too good to be true. Still... maybe some day. Also, maybe, just maybe, he'll finally release 5th ed. both in pdf and print-on-demand. I can dream. |
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Dec 5, 2009 7:06:58 GMT -5
I haven't published much on the web-10+ items or so, mostly modules for Gamma World- but I resent feeling like I CAN'T share my labors of love if I want to. The very nature of a RPG is that it is a tool kit to create. I have a number of T&T ideas bouncing around my head right now, and in a few months I suspect I'm going to post a few scenarios on my blog. I'm going to be ticked off royally if I discover I can't do that. I'll admit, I'm thoroughly confused. It was my understanding that as long as something is free then there's no worry at all. Period. It was also my understanding that simply stating that something was "for use with/for ___" was covered by nominative use and as long as there was mention of the owner of said trademark and that no infringement is intended, etc., in a publication for profit even, that it was all aces. 'Course, I'm no lawyer and I've only picked all this up from all the folks, who include lawyers...copyright lawyers specifically even, over at Dragonsfoot in all those threads about the clones over the years. |
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uburoi
4th Level Troll
Rarr 'n' stuff.
Posts: 486
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Post by uburoi on Dec 5, 2009 9:26:01 GMT -5
JEEZ LOUISE. This is getting thick and deep. Time to break out the calf-high boots (40 WU, 10 GP)! This morning Trollhalla recieved an email from Mari (Ealnaatha Vaelmarrri) about "that guy"'s letter, in which she explains that his allegations are incorrect ( mirable dictu!  ), that she has done plenty of free work for OP that has never been compensated and has been re-printed without attribution, and in fact was asked by OP to edit some of the artwork that apparently was stolen. This is followed up by an e-mail from KSA, in which he says: Quickly followed by an email from Kopfy in which he says OP is returning a "stolen story" to him, which is REAL INTERESTING 'cause apparently the story wasn't "stolen" at all. Then, on top of all this, the revelation I read on RPG.net last night that Lulu has pulled Tori Bergquist's T&T stuff, on the allegation by an unknown party (though I have my suspicions -!) that he (?) was using stolen material and violating copyright... these being books Tori had sold himself through Lulu, as well as allowing "that company" to carry them. And - Noble Knight (my favorite on-line RPG source) still lists OP material for sale... but I noticed everything they carry from them is labeled "out of print". INTERESTING... AND Amazon has pulled everything Outlaw had listed there - his items are all listed "not available". This evidently after someone at RPG.net noticed that not only was some of the stuff with dodgy artwork being sold, the Amazon entry for OP's reprint of "Starfaring" had ""that guy"" listed as the author instead of "Ken St. Andre"! And "that guy" continues to be quiet other than his "MINE! MINE! MINE!" outburst the other day. Yeesh. Stick a fork in "that company" - it's done. |
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Post by mgtremaine on Dec 5, 2009 10:14:26 GMT -5
Mach it is from this thread forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=485281I would have missed it also but I was looking at the Tunnels & Trolls tags and came across it. I figure uburoi is correct and OP is nearing the end game but we will see. It certainly is moving slowly because of "someones" need to dig in their heels and hide their head in the sand. The stuff about Tori is just wrong and hope he can get that sorted quickly, he at least stated that he applied for official copyright so he''ll have a paper trail even if it takes a while to prove to lulu. Regarding the impact of Rick's post and early speculation about the openness of the brand, I think so long as you do the right thing with regards to the TM and creator status in your product it will not be that bad. For free products obviously the process should be painless there would be little reason for Rick to say anything unless you are putting out something super controversial [as someone wrote in a blog Rick was burned once by a licensee hence his hesitation.] For pay products we'll most everyone stated they wanted to stay on the good side of FBI and Ken so dropping a note is the right way to start. What needs to be shown is that more products will mean more sales of the core rules. Rather then trying to monetize the mark and charging a buck or whatever per usage we need to help Rick join the "OSR", get the storefront at rpgnow stocked, get the darn 5th Edition ruleset up that should be a huge seller. Get 4th Edition away from "that guy" and into the storefront, get M!M! there also. [Not the meta gamming addition but the 2nd Edition that FBI released with whatever addition Ken put in for his later photocopy edition.] Get the rest of the product line in [after the holidays I'll tackle the missing solos which is #5, 17->24, +Elven Lords, all of which should be easy except Dark Temple and Cat's Away because they are perfect bound which means I'll have to buy a extra copy and dismantle them.] With all that going FBI should see a good increase in sales from the brand. Bonus points would be to somehow get the flyingbuffalo website into the 21st century.
-Mike
Added: I just peeked at the pdf previews again Mistywood is a little ragged also I should clean that one up. |
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uburoi
4th Level Troll
Rarr 'n' stuff.
Posts: 486
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Post by uburoi on Dec 5, 2009 10:28:49 GMT -5
we need to help Rick join the "OSR", get the storefront at rpgnow stocked, get the darn 5th Edition ruleset up that should be a huge seller. Y'know JUST SAYIN' there Rick... but people may very well be getting money for Christmas/Hanukah/Kwanzaa/Festivus/Solstice/Candlemas and Y'KNOW a purchase of something for T&T - oh, say, a PDF of 5th Edition would be a great thing to spend it on... Y'KNOW... ;D |
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Dec 5, 2009 10:45:00 GMT -5
Thanks, Mike. I'd seen that thread when it started, but somehow missed it when it picked up a few days after when Mr. Loomis made his post.
I can't help but worry that all this may put Rick in the unfortunate realm of feeling that he needs to clutch and jealously guard T&T by locking it away, which would, in my opinion, be the worst thing that could happen to the game and it's survivability and viability in the current market.
Even though I still contend that yesterday (by that I mean a couple of years ago) would have been the time to get T&T out there on pdf and even on Lulu...if not then...then NOW is the time to strike with both!
Now meaning this effin' instant.
So very many are taking another look and a first time look at T&T. If the 5th ed. was available on RPGNow as of a couple of weeks ago...Rick probably would have made more sales in the past week or two than he has in the past couple of years combined!!
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Post by Vin Ahrr Vin on Dec 5, 2009 16:34:35 GMT -5
the Amazon entry for OP's reprint of "Starfaring" had ""that guy"" listed as the author instead of "Ken St. Andre"! O M G ! Just about the time I thought things might settle themselves a little I hear about stuff like this. Using someone's artwork without permission is pretty bad, but stealing an entire game is a whole new ballgame. Nobody should be able to get away with this -- it's outright theft. I hope that is just a typo, for "that guy"'s sake. If the books are printed with that byline..... ouch! |
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quoghmyre
7th Level Troll
The Summer Troll
Posts: 1,048
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Post by quoghmyre on Dec 5, 2009 18:18:17 GMT -5
I went to the Amazon page when it was up, not to defend his behaviour
Yes, "that guy" was entered as the author for Starfaring, but he had also been listed as the author of every other publication he had listed too. Including Hot Pursuit, all of them!
I don't know who listed these books but it seems to me that it was plan laziness filling in the listing page, rather than type the proper details they had just entered "that guy".
People have complained to Amazon and the books removed.
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Hogscape
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
It's not the years, it's the mileage.
Posts: 2,126
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Post by Hogscape on Dec 5, 2009 20:01:03 GMT -5
James was also listed as the author on Lulu but not on the actual products themselves...
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Post by mgtremaine on Dec 6, 2009 9:49:10 GMT -5
I think someone mentioned this before but just to point it out "that guy" changed his ebay user ID on Nov 29th [gee why would he do that?]. Sadly he is offer up some interest old zines, I wonder if he needs the money or what? I can only assume he has a heck of a collection.
User ID Effective Date End Date
actionseller99 Nov-29-09 Present
jimship1 Jan-10-06 Nov-29-09
-Mike
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), that she has done plenty of free work for OP that has never been compensated and has been re-printed without attribution, and in fact was asked by OP to edit some of the artwork that apparently was stolen.
