Outlaw Mess

[koraq]

Ick! Friends, considering the state of things right now, please don't go post things like that rpg.net thread! The legal aspects of this is far more involved than most of us think. Like was said somewhere else here, support Rick's trademark claims is the way to go if you want to be nice about things, even if it's expired (which it might be, I still don't understand that).

[koraq]

wilowisp and others,

It's very easy to get Rick's permission to post stuff. I asked him for my blog and he just asked me to link back and acknowledge that the T&T trademark belongs to FBI.

If you read Ken's post more closely you'll see that what he said wasn't that T&T was an open licence. What he said was that Rick don't have the money or interest to go after you with a legal blowtorch so if you're just nice you will be able to do what you want. Take it easy, it's not like an open door have been slammed shut or anything.

That being said, it's not hard to contact Rick. If my experience is anything to judge from, it's also not unlikely that he will just say "great, go ahead but please link back to me".

[machfront]

Not to defend "that guy", but the fact that he was listed as author on all the products on Lulu and Amazon was a matter of convenience and not a nefarious suggestion of himself as actual author.
Someone pointed out on the PRG.net thread that, in Amazon's case, it's an artifact of the Lulu-to-Amazon conversion software/process.
What's more, from what very little I gather from Lulu, if you as an individual set up an account and that account is your storefront, your products you offer will default to your name as author...or something like that.
In other words, it was really nothing more than all or some or one of the following:
1. Laziness
2. Restriction/limitation of the medium itself
3. Easy for consumer to find all other products for sale

As Hogscape pointed out, the proper authors were always attributed in the product itself, and, I'll add, many times right in the product description itself.

Still, he's done more than enough to be shown for what he is, as Radioactive Ape Colin summarized on the big purple thread:

So, lemme see. These are the various elements revealed by various folks:

* 70+ pieces of art stolen and used without authorization for various T&T publications including work copyrighted to Games Workshop, Dreamworks/Universal and Blizzard/Upper Deck.
* The entire Mazes & Minotaurs rpg stolen, published and sold without authorization.
* An entire adventure (including art) from Dungeon magazine copied (inc. art) with only stat blocks changed.
* Various pieces of T&T fan work stolen and published without authorization.
* Gamma World material stolen from official books and fans.
* The theft, publication and sale of T&T before he was licensed (he promised not to do it again so they licensed him).
* The publications and sale of T&T items/editions he was not licensed to do.
* Republication after first-rights without authorization or author/artist acknowledgement.
* Refusal to cease operations when his license was revoked by his licensor.
* Continued sale of works featuring stolen art despite being ordered by his licensor to cease.
* Mocking of efforts to uncover his wrongdoings, and mocking of GW fans and T&T fans disgusted by his behaviour.
* Utter failure to address any of the issues raised combined with a flimsy "The art was all obtained from some mysterious unrevealed broker" assertion.
* Utter failure to respond to the various copyright holders or disclose said mysterious broker to the relevant copyright holders.
* Claims of ownership to materials he was never involved with and rights he does not possess.
* Angry responses to "issues" no one has raised, which amount to "Mine! It's all mine!".
* Outright lies to freelancers who'd worked with him and general avoidance of them and their concerns.
* Asked one artist to edit some of the stolen artwork used for him.

And this is just the stuff we know about. As far as I know no one has spent any real time checking the interior art yet, or the textual contents of the various books, though I do know one artist has access to said works now to check them.

I think it's gettin' fairly clear...

[quoghmyre]

pipemaze.com/tnt/art.html

Edit: different link same content

[feldrik]

Link is broken.....

[machfront]

Quog's fixed it now.

Yep...I saw that pdf earlier....and it contains only what's been verified so far. Sheesh....

It certainly is interesting seeing that one fellow comment on his experiences concerning "that guy" and the Gamma World stuff from years back.

Also, T.Foster (who's a pretty stand up guy that posts a lot on Dragonsfoot, Knights and Knaves Alehouse and other places) mentioned on TheRPGSite last week or so that he knew "that guy" in the 90s as they were in the same game club or group or something. He said that knowing him as he did, he wasn't surprised in the slightest that he did these things.
This reminded me that Foster said something similar a year or two ago on DF. I think it may have been during the M&M debacle.

This is more...strange that anything else now, in a way...

[uburoi]

Quog, that PDF is really d**ning... it's one thing to have allegations, it's another to see the covers next to the "originals".

The real irony is, I'm sure if James had gone to these artists and asked for their permission to use their work, I'm sure most of them would have agreed for a fair price. But, no, he had to do it for free, undoubtedly knowing he'd get caught at some point & thinking he could laugh it off like he's done in the past. OOPS.

BTW - I have to check into this, but I have a friend who wrote articles that were published both in Hobbit Hole #4 and re-printed in the 2007 House Rules... be interesting to see if he knew his article had been in either book.

[machfront]

Not only that, uburoi, but I'd wager a few of those artists may have loosed some of their talent for free for the exposure. All James would have had to do would be to tell them to look at his site and that he was on Amazon and Lulu and tell 'em to take a look here and/or Trollhalla as well. Seeing the kind of (yes, niche, but still) exposure may have had them agreeing to such a mutually beneficial deal.
Wasted, really.

If you find your bud had his stuff shoved into said book without his knowledge, then that would be indeed interesting. Regardless of how it turns out, tell him I dug it, because I dig everything in that book, so I know I don't need a qualifier.

[mgtremaine]

Check out the OP website and the RPG.net post. He's up to something which I think is going to be a legal maneuver, sigh...

-Mike

[Boozer]

Just looked on your link Quogh - a couple of my solos on there. I'm very disappointed...

[machfront]

Dec 7, 2009 15:35:49 GMT -5 mgtremaine said:

Check out the OP website and the RPG.net post. He's up to something which I think is going to be a legal maneuver, sigh...

-Mike

Ah, yes. His new overseas "company". I hope Rick takes action and is able to take some action. Some folks have written some advice on The thread and on the other that Rick actually posted in. I hope he's looking into these avenues.

[hrrrothgarrr]

That was my question: "Does Rick know about this?"
The "that company" website clearly states: New Tunnels & Trolls products produced
with official permission from FBI.

[machfront]

He does know, if you mean in general. Does he know about "that guy"'s latest "move"? I dunno.
He stated in an email to mgtremaine if I recall correctly that "that guy" should not be selling older T&T versions and asked if OP was indeed doing so.
"that guy" responded here or on Trollhalla (I've forgotten which now), he said Rick was made aware and it didn't matter if Rick remembered or not and contended that it was legal whether Rick liked it or not (more or less).

I don't know if he's been rather gutsy and stupid, or if he's being really slick and is actually legally in the clear somehow by knowing something we don't. Rick, though, seems to know his stuff concerning copyright and trademark. I dunno. We'll have to wait and see if anything happens.

[skathros]

Well, well, well. I leave the fold for a while and look what I come back to. What a mess. Looks like OP won`t be gettting a single gold piece from me! I might pregnant dog and moan about FDP`s crappy binding on 7E, but at least FDP doest cheepen the T&T name by ripping other people off.

Oh well, screw OP. I know meny here have voiced that OP was great in that it provided material for T&T, but in reality (IMHO) didn`t they just muddy the T&T landscape a little more. I mean, as a game, T&T is a jumble of editions floating about, a mix of various editions and supplements peddled by OP, as well as by 2 reliable venues (FBI and FDP). This just seems like the wrong way to go. I mean, other than the scans of older editions, OP offered nothing more than what we, as a community, could produce ourselves. Hell, the old-schooléretro-clone community is doing so, and serving themselves just fine! Maybe it`s time we took a look at what the OOP D&D boys are doing without relying on a shady entety such as OP.

[jongjungbu]

Received Hobbit Hole #18 today. Anybody else get theirs yet? I see Dan Hembree's solo The Tomb of Baron Gharoth and a couple of articles by Ken, and my session report through Deathtrap Equalizer Dungeon. Guess HH is still going for the moment?