machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
|
Post by machfront on Nov 23, 2009 5:38:26 GMT -5
Hmm.
Well, as near as I can tell, though "Tunnels & Trolls" is trademarked, "T&T" is not. If that is indeed true, one could use the phrase "Compatible with T&T" or similar and anyone who'd be interested at all would be 99% likely to understand.
|
|
|
|
Post by jongjungbu on Nov 23, 2009 8:32:45 GMT -5
How DO you publish (for profit) and label it as a T&T-based product, legally? I have no idea what you are talking about or why you quoted me. LOL.  Hmm. Well, as near as I can tell, though "Tunnels & Trolls" is trademarked, "T&T" is not. If that is indeed true, one could use the phrase "Compatible with T&T" or similar and anyone who'd be interested at all would be 99% likely to understand. What's T&T mean? |
|
|
|
Post by ragnorakk on Nov 23, 2009 9:07:51 GMT -5
(ooc: sorry - got clobbered this weekend with work and other stuff, so I haven't been around for the conversation - it's good to see some of the old guard back around, and it's good to see so much discussion. After I get some breakfast and take a deep breath (or two) I'll come back with some (hopefully) more substantive input.  ) |
|
|
|
Post by ragnorakk on Nov 23, 2009 10:06:45 GMT -5
How DO you publish (for profit) and label it as a T&T-based product, legally? IF there was a way for me to preface every statement I made on these subjects with the fact that I am no lawyer not a businessman, I would, but I don't want to put that in my sig The only thing I can say on this remains in the domain of 'common sense' ... like - 1. Copyright your work. 2. Don't make claims about your products that are untrue )))or do things that will get you in trouble))), 3. Talk to an attorney when starting ANY business, etc, etc... There's other with far more actual experience than I in dealing with Trollgods and other Powers That Be, and these experience seem pretty varied. When I say far more I really mean ANY. I've never written to Rick Loomis and say'd "I want to publish such and such...is that OK?" or "I've written this. Is it OK to use the name of the game Tunnels and Trolls (or Starweb, or Nuclear Escalation, etc)." Your solos are totally of production quality. If you want to profit from them, tie a paypal account into the backend of it! Looking at Barony of Sanris the only squishy points I could see were 1. Give better attribution to Mahrundl's Big Book 2. Change cover text if necessary. I PM'ed Vin and he said we could use the term Trollbridge in publications, provided that we include the board's address (which would imply no change in ownership, rights or responsibilities of author). But really I'd say for you to ask Ken, ask Rick, and send it to them if they haven't seen it. If they take a pass on it and say no, strip what few direct references there are of the rule system, and do it yourself! |
|
|
|
Post by mgtremaine on Nov 23, 2009 10:08:04 GMT -5
There has been, nor likely will be, no better time for a group of interested parties to try and hash this out with Rick and Ken. I think we've seen more interest and more dispelling of some old notions regard the position of FBI on some issues then ever before. I know some emails might have been sent but it might worth trying to line up all the ducks and try and get the "global ok" so many of you can move forward on projects. I think that and a PDF of 5/5.5 would go a long way towards generating a good small press T&T eco-system.
-Mike
|
|
|
|
Post by ragnorakk on Nov 23, 2009 10:16:01 GMT -5
There has been, nor likely will be, no better time for a group of interested parties to try and hash this out with Rick and Ken. I think we've seen more interest and more dispelling of some old notions regard the position of FBI on some issues then ever before. I know some emails might have been sent but it might worth trying to line up all the ducks and try and get the "global ok" so many of you can move forward on projects. I think that and a PDF of 5/5.5 would go a long way towards generating a good small press T&T eco-system. -Mike I totally agree with all of this, particularly the importance of PDF rules being available. |
|
|
|
Post by Porkbelly on Nov 23, 2009 10:38:31 GMT -5
Not sure if this is very relevant, but I happen to be in Tokyo for the day and stopped into the Yellow Submarine at Akihabara. Surprisingly I found quite a selection of material on T&T - all in Japanese. The Japanese rulebook of T&T v7 is really quite a neat little book - I guess like the UK Corgi. A bit pricey at 20 bucks but I just had to get it - at 240 pages feels like there might be some extras in there. Other than that I also picked up three copies of a local Japanese T&T zine which I think is called Fighting Troll (or FT@#%$! in Japanese) and a solo which is clearly a translation of Haunting of Tilford's Hollow (I hope that's being done with permission Boozer!). The FT zine is well produced - each issue has a solo and a GM adventure (many are cross-statted with Fighting Fantasy I think), creature feature, reviews, comics - pretty much like a smaller 48 page Hobbit Hole I guess (cost is about 5 bucks). Anyway, just thought it was interesting that there seem to be a few companies here producing T&T rules and adventures - the magazines are dated 2008-2009 so fairly recent. Obviously there must be a reasonable fan base here but surely it's smaller than the US/UK. It's possible this is being done without permission, apart from the main rulebook, all the others are marked T&T or AT&T (advanced?), nowhere Tunnels & Trolls. Any Japanese on the board who can tell me more about this? Here's the website from the mag tandt.market.cx |
|
|
|
Post by jongjungbu on Nov 23, 2009 10:58:34 GMT -5
How DO you publish (for profit) and label it as a T&T-based product, legally? IF there was a way for me to preface every statement I made on these subjects with the fact that I am no lawyer not a businessman, I would, but I don't want to put that in my sig The only thing I can say on this remains in the domain of 'common sense' ... like - 1. Copyright your work. 2. Don't make claims about your products that are untrue )))or do things that will get you in trouble))), 3. Talk to an attorney when starting ANY business, etc, etc... There's other with far more actual experience than I in dealing with Trollgods and other Powers That Be, and these experience seem pretty varied. When I say far more I really mean ANY. I've never written to Rick Loomis and say'd "I want to publish such and such...is that OK?" or "I've written this. Is it OK to use the name of the game Tunnels and Trolls (or Starweb, or Nuclear Escalation, etc)." Your solos are totally of production quality. If you want to profit from them, tie a paypal account into the backend of it! Looking at Barony of Sanris the only squishy points I could see were 1. Give better attribution to Mahrundl's Big Book 2. Change cover text if necessary. I PM'ed Vin and he said we could use the term Trollbridge in publications, provided that we include the board's address (which would imply no change in ownership, rights or responsibilities of author). But really I'd say for you to ask Ken, ask Rick, and send it to them if they haven't seen it. If they take a pass on it and say no, strip what few direct references there are of the rule system, and do it yourself! Thanks for the elaborations. I was just curious. I really don't have any interest at the moment to try and profit from my solos. I know a few of you mention they are good enough for such, but it doesn't bother me to make them freely available as I've been doing. And I've emailed Rick and Ken about those just to be safe, and they're a-okay with them as it stands now. But if some of you folks start putting together a means for publishing in some storefronts PDF or print, I'll take the leap with you.  |
|
koraq
4th Level Troll
Posts: 355
|
Post by koraq on Nov 23, 2009 11:56:33 GMT -5
There has been, nor likely will be, no better time for a group of interested parties to try and hash this out with Rick and Ken. I think we've seen more interest and more dispelling of some old notions regard the position of FBI on some issues then ever before. I know some emails might have been sent but it might worth trying to line up all the ducks and try and get the "global ok" so many of you can move forward on projects. I think that and a PDF of 5/5.5 would go a long way towards generating a good small press T&T eco-system. -Mike Getting a "global ok" is one of the things I'm attempting in my contact with Rick. I think Ken is cool with anything which gives him credit and exposes T&T. FBI have some more concerns, but I hope we can talk that through. After I have heard back from Rick, lining up the ducks and take a closer look at Lulu and options are the next step. Thanks a lot for the excellent summaries of printing options, Khayd'haik! |
|
koraq
4th Level Troll
Posts: 355
|
Post by koraq on Nov 23, 2009 12:00:31 GMT -5
BTW I think Machfront is correct that the D&D guys have succeeded on individual effort, and that a centralized centre of production is not needed. What we do need is a central ok from FBI. That being said. If a few of us open a store front on Lulu or CreateSpace (Lightning Source doesn't seem to be the best target), it don't think it hurts to have a place like stores.lulu.com/oldschoolren to point people at, and use as a link in sigs and blogs. |
|
|
|
Post by ragnorakk on Nov 23, 2009 12:42:17 GMT -5
That being said. If a few of us open a store front on Lulu or CreateSpace (Lightning Source doesn't seem to be the best target), it don't think it hurts to have a place like stores.lulu.com/oldschoolren to point people at, and use as a link in sigs and blogs. Yep. And the different sides of this are not mutually exclusive. When I went through the lulu process a few days ago, I had to set up my own store front, so since this what was why I was doing it in the first place, I called it trollbridge. So there is a store front available at lulu right now. @ www.lulu.com/trollbridgeIt's not very impressive right now, as it's empty! I'm trying to wrap my brain around Lulu-isms to set this thing up, and when I figure out how to open the place up to accept content, I will let ya'll know. And also, I'm not trying to 'take charge' (in a sole-propiator sense) or anything here, other than creating options. As I figure out how to put content up, I'd like to open that up to everyone - but at least for the time being, it is going to have to be free stuff only. So, yeah - it's there for anyone to use - and as much as I am administering it (in the sense that I have the password to the account), I am not much interested in being the only one to do so. Totally open to adapting this as needs be. |
|
|
|
Post by jongjungbu on Nov 23, 2009 12:47:07 GMT -5
Feel free to insert any of my free solos to try and figure it out, ragnorakk. I've never used Lulu before other than purchasing, so I can't be much help from the technical aspect of the storefront. |
|
machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
|
Post by machfront on Nov 23, 2009 15:20:45 GMT -5
Porkbelly, we've talked a lil bit about the Japanese T&T, but, of course, none of really know a heck of a lot except that the manga-styled recent books were 7th ed. This is actually the most I've ever seen. Thanks for the link. It seems there's been a Japanese T&T for a while, and until now, I didn't know if they'd had 5th ed. Guess so./Threadjack. |
|
quoghmyre
7th Level Troll
The Summer Troll
Posts: 1,048
|
Post by quoghmyre on Nov 23, 2009 15:23:52 GMT -5
/more threadjack
I recall Ken saying that T&T was bigger in Japan than any other country, even bigger than the USA.
|
|
quoghmyre
7th Level Troll
The Summer Troll
Posts: 1,048
|
Post by quoghmyre on Nov 23, 2009 15:27:48 GMT -5
There's a lot of great info i this thread can we spin it off to a new thread, maybe called "Tips on Publishing for T&T", with one of those floats at the tip of the list pins?
|
|
)
