Hogscape
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
It's not the years, it's the mileage.
Posts: 2,126
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Post by Hogscape on Dec 23, 2009 22:45:37 GMT -5
I like the skills idea but I would go with a +5 bonus per skill level rather than a -1 difficulty level. Personal pref only.
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Post by Porkbelly on Dec 24, 2009 1:49:55 GMT -5
The laundry list leaves me a bit cold... seems like they wanted to define the advancement of professions more clearly through skill acquisition and I can see elements of the D&D thief here along with Runequest skills. I think 7.0 Talents does this much more cleanly (and I'm not a huge fan of talents anyway).
Where this system might be interesting is in randomly generating a unique mid or high-level character for a solo adventure.
The reduced SR for the skill (or +5, as you prefer), is something I like better than rolling 1d6 as in 7.x. This way you just have a skill or talent, and effectively the SR is one lower than normal. No need to track other numbers.
So far most of HT&T reminds me of Machfront's "But it could already do That!" thread. Still, I'm only on Chapter 1. Combat should be interesting.
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Post by mahrundl on Dec 24, 2009 20:08:51 GMT -5
"Advanced Tunnels & Trolls" On the subject of Advanced Tunnels and Trolls, I acquired - from someone that I've never met and only corresponded with in a couple of e-mails - his house rules that he calls AT&T. I think that he was OK with me sharing it (I'll need to dig through my e-mail archive to be sure), so if that's the case, is anyone interested in seeing the document (it's in Word format, as I recall)? PM or e-mail me if so. I'll mention in advance that it's a bit disorganised, and there are some major changes over 5th edition, which is what it was based on. There could be items of interest though.
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Post by Porkbelly on Dec 26, 2009 1:19:26 GMT -5
I'd like to take a look Mahrundl - if it's ok to share. (My email is porkbelly00@gmail.com) . It's very interesting to see the thought processes that people go through with house rulings.
Although, honestly the more complex things get, the more I appreciate the simplicity of the earlier versions.
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Post by mahrundl on Dec 26, 2009 19:47:13 GMT -5
It is OK to share, and I've just sent the document to you. Enjoy!
(And I tend to agree with you about the complexity...)
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Post by Porkbelly on Jan 8, 2010 9:17:25 GMT -5
Continuing the saga, this post covers chapter 2 and the short chapter 3. Chapter 2 discusses Saving Rolls and has some interesting rules.
HYPER T&T (Part 3)
Chapter 2 – Saving Rolls
1 Determining SR Target Number The SR mechanism in HT&T is standard T&T, so the target number required for an SR is SR level x 5 + 15. Applicable skills can be used to reduce the level (described above in Chapter 1 and again below)
SR Difficulty Level SR Level describes the difficulty of the task. In HT&T the SR difficulty levels may be zero or even negative. SR Level is generally specified by the GM or within the text of the scenario, but the general guidance here states that the typical SR level is based on the level of the character making the roll. Increase the level by +1, or +2 for more difficult actions, or decrease by -1 or -2 for more simple tasks.
2 Rolling the SR Standard T&T rules for rolling SR apply. Roll 2 dice and equal or exceed the target number, otherwise fail. When rolling the dice, Doubles Add and Roll Over (DARO). Automatic Failure occurs on a final result less than 5. AP is awarded to the character whether the roll passes or fails (refers to Chapter 6).
3 Hyper-Points Hyper-points are awarded to a character at the start of every game session. Each character is awarded a number of hyper-points equal to their level. Hyper-points can only be used for the current game session, they cannot be carried forward to later sessions.
Using Hyper-Points Hyper-points allow you to add extra dice to your saving roll, expend one hyper-point to add one dice, two hyper-points to add two dice, etc. Note that use of hyper-points removes the possibility of automatic failure.
Hyper-Points and DARO Any sets of dice that come up the same number can be re-rolled, e.g. a player decides to use 4 hyper-points for a crucial SR. He gets to roll six dice. Any sets of 'same' dice results are re-rolled and this continues until no doubles, or better, remain. The final result might turn out something like this:
Roll six dice: 1 3 3 3 6 6 Reroll 3x3 + 2x6: 2 5 5 + 2 5 Reroll 2x5: 1 4 Total: 46
AP's are still gained normally when using hyper-points.
4 Opposed SR If a character or NPC succeeds in a SR to perform some action against another character or NPC, then that opponent can immediately make an Opposed SR to cancel the effect. The level of the Opposed SR is equal to the level of the original SR + 1.
The examples given for Opposed SR include: dodging a successful a missile attack; or detecting a successful sneaking attempt.
All normal rules for SR apply to Opposed SR, including chance of automatic failure, DARO, Hyper-Points and AP gain. The editors caution that the GM should be circumspect when deciding to allow Opposed SR rolls, as escalating exchanges of rolls can rapidly slow down the game.
5 Using Skills with SR As mentioned in Chapter 1, character skills can be used to reduce the target level required for an SR where the skill is applicable. The SR target level is reduced by the level of ability that the character has in the skill.
For example, a Warrior needs to make a L2SR on CHR to ride a wild horse, if the Warrior has the "Animal Training" skill of level 1, then he only needs to make a L1SR on CHR.
When making an Opposed SR the target level is always increased by any skill levels that were applied to the original SR roll (ie. the Opposed SR is based on the original difficulty).
6 Voluntary SR Level A character may choose to voluntarily increase the difficulty level of an SR in situations where the roll is likely to be opposed. If the SR is successful then any Opposed SR must be made at the elected SR level + 1.
7 Special Saving Rolls SR involved in both negotiations and combat (melee or magical combat) are special cases. Another important case is the special Survival SR made when an attribute is reduced to zero or less.
Negotiation SR There follows a list of different negotiating tactics based on all those charisma-based skills in Chapter 1. Base target number for the SR is the level of NPC, or for a monster, MR / CHR (round up) + 1 Difficulty level is adjusted depending on the type of negotiating tactic and the attitude of the NPC.
Combat/Magic SR SR Level for special combat maneuvers is determined in special way (see Chapter 4) SR Level for casting magic and magic resistance is determined in special way (see Chapter 5)
Survival SR During play events occur to reduce attributes, typically this is in the form of damage taken on CON. Reducing any attribute (except CHR) below 1 results in unconsciousness, and possibly death. Where this happens, an SR on LK at the character's level is required in order for the character to survive. If this SR succeeds then the attribute is raised back to 1, but an hour is required for the character to regain a level of consciousness sufficient to perform any real activity. No skills can be used to reduce the level of this SR but hyper-points may be used if available.
Near Miss SR As described in the skills section of Chapter 1, if a character has the luck-based skill of "avoiding danger" and the SR is failed by only 1 level, then any damage received is reduced by 1 dice per level of the skill.
Chapter 3 – Movement and Encounters It takes time for characters to move from place to place and as they do so random encounters may occur.
1 Movement Speed Speed of movement depends on various factors, including encumbrance, fatigue and difficulty of the terrain. This section provides a table showing distance that can be covered in one round (2 minutes) or one day depending on the different circumstances.
2 Encounter Distance When an encounter occurs, the tables provided can be used to help determine the distance involved between the two groups. Two simple tables for underground and aboveground give a range of distances for the encounter.
3 NPC/Monster Reactions The table for randomly determining NPC/monster reaction from the 5e rules is shown here.
Next up... Chapter 4 discusses Combat!
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Post by Toad-Killer-Dog on Jan 9, 2010 6:56:29 GMT -5
Very interesting, the "Hyper-Points" idea is kind of neat.
I'm looking forward to seeing what changes have been made to combat! ;D
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Jan 9, 2010 9:07:39 GMT -5
Hyper-Points are a neat idea. Though the amount given seems a wee too much.
The way of handling Opposed SRs is pretty interesting. I like the +1 to the level of the successful SR made to overcome it. Though I'd likely stick with the usual of SR to SR with the greater degree of success being the winner if the opposition is direct and immediate (like say, for something like an arm-wrestling contest).
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Post by Porkbelly on Jan 14, 2010 0:12:18 GMT -5
Yep, I saw the main points here as:
1) Hyper-points: I kind of like the idea, I've seen variations of this before (such as the Glory Points in Bergquist's Troll's Companion). The example shown is a bit over the top, just rolling one extra dice gives you a pretty good chance of doubles already.
2) Opposed Rolls: I thought this was very neat at first and then ho hum once I read further. I agree with you Mach that it's simpler just to do SR vs. SR. Where I started to go wow was my first mis-interpretation of how this worked... With a missile dodge I'd thought that the opposition rolled first, and their roll set the SR level 'to hit' (with the +1 rounding up to the next level). So a 'barn door' with DEX 0 would roll a 7 and be easy to hit while a Goblin with DEX 15 would need an avg of 22 to hit (probably L2, maybe L3 if he rolled 10 or more). I thought that was a neat concept until I discovered I'd misread the whole section.
3) The section on special SR was really quite long, all the negotiating tactics were given a paragraph or two. Really... in the olden days we'd just wing it with roleplaying, what a concept. Also thought the survival roll was an interesting point, seen that one in house-rules before.
The next chapter on combat is pretty long but I'm making a start on it this weekend.
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Post by Porkbelly on Oct 27, 2011 0:04:30 GMT -5
Wow, that turned into a long weekend.... I might get back to this as a way of brushing up on my Japanese, if there's any interest.
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Post by mahrundl on Oct 27, 2011 4:51:42 GMT -5
Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd be interested. My Japanese is non-existent, so there's no real way that I'd be tackling a project like this myself, but I'm always intrigued to see what others have been doing with T & T.
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Post by mgtremaine on Oct 27, 2011 9:23:53 GMT -5
I'm still laughing over the TTYF translation. -Mike
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Post by Toad-Killer-Dog on Oct 27, 2011 16:58:39 GMT -5
I'm still interested. ;D
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devadasi
5th Level Troll
maiden voyager
Posts: 603
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Post by devadasi on Oct 27, 2011 17:00:52 GMT -5
yeah, i would so LOVE a translation of the whole text.
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Post by Porkbelly on Oct 29, 2011 10:11:49 GMT -5
Cool, glad to see there's some interest. I'm finding my translation skills are "very" rusty but I think this is an interesting project. The set of Japanese HT&T books were very popular and may even have outstripped sales of T&T 5e in the US. Certainly it was the T&T game of choice in Japan for many years.
I have what I hope are complete sets of the early 5e (2 books), HT&T (3 books) and also 7e (2 books) plus half a dozen T&T gaming magazines. My 5e set is equivalent to the Corgi edition (but including a Monsters Monsters book which I don't think Corgi did). The 7e main book is a direct translation of the first FD printing (so 7.0 not 7.5), the second 7e book is an updated version of "Sword for Hire" published together with the text from a long play-by-play GM game. Game session reports appear to be quite popular in Japan with many websites and some books published.
It's really the 3 HT&T books that I think are quite unique though. they fall between 5e and 7e at the time when there wasn't much new T&T being published in the US. The books are the one I'm translating here, a new version of Monster! Monster! and the Campaign Setting which is full of maps and whatnot.
It's a real shame though to see that T&T 7 never really took off and the T&T websites that I knew of have now mostly gone offline with folks switching to other RPG's rather than stay with an 'old edition'. Fortunately I did manage to acquire archives of several T&T community websites and some of them were quite extensive. I'd need to check if any of it can be made available under permission.
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