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Post by ProfGremlin on Aug 30, 2010 15:46:45 GMT -5
Just kidding!!! I would never ever do that!  Yeah, I mean, really, MS Paint is so clumsy... ::ducking:: |
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Post by Darknight on Sept 1, 2010 11:12:03 GMT -5
I think the issue of download speed / size of file is a wee bit silly - if it takes a long time to get a good, big product then it takes a lot of time.
When I was a young 'un and using 28kbs modems (yes, they existed!) we would just go have a cup of tea when downloading things. I remember 36k modems being like, whoa!
Also, I had to walk to school five miles, uphill both ways.
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sligo
4th Level Troll
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Posts: 495
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Post by sligo on Sept 1, 2010 11:36:04 GMT -5
When I was a young 'un and using 28kbs modems (yes, they existed!) we would just go have a cup of tea when downloading things. I remember 36k modems being like, whoa! 28kbs? I remember BBS'ing at 2400! That was the day! It took an hour or two to download the latest new game from Apogee... Also, I had to walk to school five miles, uphill both ways. Oh yeah? Well I had to do it in the snow... During summer school! |
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Post by mahrundl on Sept 1, 2010 17:18:49 GMT -5
300 baud, man! Acoustic coupling! ;D I just finished reading issue 3 last night. It's all really nice stuff in there. Well done to all of the authors! |
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quoghmyre
7th Level Troll
The Summer Troll
Posts: 1,048
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Post by quoghmyre on Sept 1, 2010 17:29:08 GMT -5
I go back to the 300/300 or 1200/75, they was the days.
"GET OF MY LAWN" sorry about that, darn kids...
You can print the current versions of TrollsZine, its a print quality Mag. If we were doing it for monies then maybe we'd have a compressed low quality download version.
TrollsZine is not a web mag and comparing the size of the art to that on a web site is a bit silly.
Quality, we want the best quality we can produce, articles, solos, adventures, art, and production. But there are 2 different markets spaces, one download and read on screen, the other a print magazine. When I went towards Screen, some wanted it to be more like a magazine, we make it printable and now its too big.
But wait, isn't there something you could do...
If you own a Mac, open it in Preview,
File > Save As.. and from the Quartz Filter menu choose Reduce File Size.
OMG, problem solved...
I'm sure there's a way to do this on Windows too.
You can aways compress stuff but you can't make it better quality. I think we're making the right call, art and article length will remain at the size they are submitted. If you want to print it or compress it for your own use, then fine, do so.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2010 18:39:20 GMT -5
I haven't read through all the other posts about download times/speed. I have DSL and it does only take a few minutes for me to download it. I do remember the days when I had dial up and would download outrageously big files and deal with disconnecting and having to start over though.
My opinion is even if I still had dial up I would still download this fabulous publication and be thrilled for such a great fanzine. Thanks guys.
One of these days I am going to get off my lazy bum and go have my copies printed. I don't own a car, so I have to get pretty motivated to get out and do some things. Do places like Kinko's print in formats where you can actually staple it together like a magazine? Or would one just have to punch it and put it in a binder?
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sligo
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Post by sligo on Sept 1, 2010 19:13:00 GMT -5
Do places like Kinko's print in formats where you can actually staple it together like a magazine? Or would one just have to punch it and put it in a binder? I can't speak from personal experience, but I'll betcha it's just a matter of how much you're willing to spend. |
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Post by ProfGremlin on Sept 1, 2010 20:04:16 GMT -5
Do places like Kinko's print in formats where you can actually staple it together like a magazine? Or would one just have to punch it and put it in a binder? I'm sure they could do whatever it is you wanted, it's just a matter of cost. Remember, they cater to businesses, as well, so have to have a wide variety of options. Off the top of my head you could probably get it coil bound for less than $5. I've done that through Copymax a few times. Even had them laminate the front and back covers for durability. Another binding type I've seen is that of a clip running the full length of the spine, though I'm not sure how much that would cost. I have some vague memory that you can purchase those and bind the document yourself with a pair of clear plastic covers. |
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Sept 2, 2010 5:13:45 GMT -5
You can print the current versions of TrollsZine, its a print quality Mag. If we were doing it for monies then maybe we'd have a compressed low quality download version. So are mags like Knockspell and Fight On!, as are games like Labyrinth Lord and Swords & Wizardry and Arrowflight that I mentioned earlier. They print at very high quality, but their relative size is a good bit smaller. In fact, Labyrinth Lord core is 128 fully-illustrated pages, plus full front and back covers and the Advanced Edition Companion which is 161 fully-illustrated and covers... all together, with their two respective character sheets as well only totals 13.54 megs. Print 'em at home or at Office Depot and they look great. Heck, for that matter the two booklets that make up the Dragon Age pnp rpg from Green Ronin. Both are 66 pages including covers. That's 132 pages. Every single page is in full, blazing color. Also, DA is most certainly a professional product with a great deal of sheen. Full, high quality color pages. Even pages without illustrations. 132 pages. Total file size? 28 megs. Ssoo....  TrollsZine is not a web mag and comparing the size of the art to that on a web site is a bit silly. No one was...okay...I wasn't. I was specifically talking about it in relation to other amateur-hobbiest pdf products (but also 'professional' ones as well). Quality, we want the best quality we can produce, articles, solos, adventures, art, and production. But there are 2 different markets spaces, one download and read on screen, the other a print magazine. When I went towards Screen, some wanted it to be more like a magazine, we make it printable and now its too big. This I still don't get. See above. Again, the products I mentioned above are of professional quality and both work equally and perfectly well in both mediums. Also I wanted to note that download time is no issue for me. I don't care about that either way. I'm only confused as to the apparent disparity between fully-professional, though amateur-hobbiest-produced, products that are just as many pages and illustrations and so on or more of either or both...yet are much smaller file sizes. I mean, I'll fully admit to being ignorant of all the ins and outs. I just think it's weird, since it can apparently be done with no appreciable or even noticeable drawback... I also want to add I'm not "calling anyone out" or anything, or lambasting anyone's efforts, so please don't misunderstand. Everyone involved in TrollsZine has my gratitude and respect. I love TrollsZine and I love that it exists.  |
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dekh
5th Level Troll
dekh by Grumlahk
Posts: 622
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Post by dekh on Sept 2, 2010 5:30:08 GMT -5
TrollsZine is not a web mag and comparing the size of the art to that on a web site is a bit silly. It is a PDF download of a magazine from the web. I don't usually consider myself silly.  I believe it is a valid comparison. But wait, isn't there something you could do... If you own a Mac, open it in Preview, File > Save As.. and from the Quartz Filter menu choose Reduce File Size. OMG, problem solved... It still has to be downloaded prior to your steps. I don't think it is appropriate to dismiss someone's opinion out of hand like this. If there is a barrier to a portion of your potential market then you should work to eliminate the problem. If it is an easy fix to provide a lower quality, smaller sized download then perhaps you should provide both downloads to the public. And your response to the review could be: "Thank you for your review. We are glad you think highly of the content within the magazine. We stirve to provide the best. Regarding the download size, we are investigateing the possibilty of providing both the current high quality version for printing and a more compressed version more suitable for both PC, hand held and PDF Reader devices. The TrollsZine is still in its early days and we value all criticism." Would something like that be a bit better for customer relations? Let's face it, take out my review and your review then she is 33% of the market bothered enough to actually leave a review. She could be on mobile broadband, or Lord forbid, sitting on a ships satellite comms and watching her bill soar. You never know on the internet. That being said, although I wouldn't print out the TrollsZine I would download the high quality version. If Drive Thru allowed you to upload two versions then you might be pleasently surprised and find that your audience grows. It would also give you an opportunity to re-advertise TZ1 & 2. Just food for thought. |
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Post by Burraggha on Sept 2, 2010 9:26:22 GMT -5
I, myself, would much rather spend the time on a download that is print quality than a quick on screen only one that prints badly. Keep doing what your doing guys, looks great to me.
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Post by Aramis of Erak on Sept 3, 2010 0:24:47 GMT -5
I commented about the size issue with Issue 1; due to the size issue, I've not bothered with later issues.
Quogmhyre refuses to consider compressed images.
One of the standard compression modes for PDF is in fact a lossless compression; that alone would, without loss of quality, reduce file sizes. It does increase load-from-file times (a second or two to get images), but reduces download times by considerable amounts.
Consider this: I'm one of many people on the lower end of plans to be called "high speed"... I get 32kb/s downloads. That's it. 256kilobits per second. Via DSL. I can't watch streaming video, and downloads are 30 seconds per meg under ideal conditions. I can do streaming audio and skype video at 2-5 FPS...
But I don't like 15 minute downloads.
Never did.
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Sept 3, 2010 3:32:20 GMT -5
I, myself, would much rather spend the time on a download that is print quality than a quick on screen only one that prints badly. But that's just my own point (or perhaps confusion as the case may be). I've scores of pdfs that are twice or three times the practical size of any issue of TrollsZine yet they are, more often than not, half the size in terms of file size. They also print at very high quality. |
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quoghmyre
7th Level Troll
The Summer Troll
Posts: 1,048
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Post by quoghmyre on Sept 3, 2010 7:29:32 GMT -5
That's total BS. All the images that are submitted have compression.
I asked right at issue 1 for the artist to submit their work in .png with alpha channel if they wanted one and at the size and compression the artists were happy with.
I received some that were just too big and had to trim and compress them. One of the Artists did not like this and asked us to either pull the work or keep the art work as it was supplied. They submitted no more art. Some artists take this issue very seriously!
The other was a file that was just under 10Mb, that one file could of been over 20% of the mag. 1 file, but I compressed it, more than I should have but far less than I could have.
I'm not here to cut and compress other artists work, I don't have time to do that, my job is to lay up the submitted contents and produce the best pdf I can. If you have a problem take it up with the artists, and quite frankly don't be surprised if the next issue is a lot smaller in size.
I'll be doing TrollsZine 4 if the Editor wants, and that's my lot. I can see there are lots of people on this forum that can do the job better than I can, it's obviously time for a change, so I'm more than happy to pass next years issues over to them.
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Post by zanshin on Sept 3, 2010 8:07:38 GMT -5
Quogmyre I would love you to do TrollsZine 4, you have done a brilliant job on numbers 1 to 3 and they would not have happened without you. Thank you for all the work you have done. I think we have created some zines we can be very proud of.
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I believe it is a valid comparison.
