I don't know, it seems like they'd put a big dent in the wall when they hit after getting swatted! Anyway, I've been looking at edition 7.5, and Ken's got the weight down to 1/1000th of a human (at least that's what it looks like-I have to admit that my pain meds sometimes play hob with my eyes, and I either miss things entirely or see double. Yep, it's a thousandth, all right. That means that if you roll a 200 weight, that fairy winds up weighing in at under a quarter-pound. Hmm. House-rule back to 5th edition?
My fault, there, and I don't aplogize in the least. I just pointed out that if a fairy was made of normal flesh and blood, it should have a weight of 1/1000. (Weight is proportional to the cube of linear dimension, so 1/10 height = 1/1000 weight.) I was actually advocating a return to the 1/200 rule of 5E, which is somewhat more dense than aluminum, but Ken decided to go all the way to meat...
Post by unclehyena on Jan 24, 2009 13:00:58 GMT -5
Yep, a meat troll that is three times the height of a human should weigh 27 times as much. And a rock troll of the same proportions should weigh about three times more than that. (REALLY rough rule of thumb: Rock/ ceramic/ concrete weigh about three times as much as water or flesh.)
Post by Mhegrrrim Skulltosser on Jan 26, 2009 21:51:57 GMT -5
Well of course! But I do wonder about the effects of architecture. Perhaps TrollWorld castles and keeps have mighty oubliettes covered over with a nice wood floor. A mean nasty troll could quickly fall to the bottom! The local lord could then just rebuild the floor and forget the troll... (assuming the pit was made troll proof - maybe worth the investment in a good ol' fashion bottomless pit).
Trolls in war could be as dangerous a liability as war elephants. Whole generations of Battle Wizards are trained with spells designed to trip trolls at will. (ex. The orc army charges up the hill to the keep with trolls in the lead. Zap! Trolls trip and roll back down hill over the orcs! What a jam that'd make)
No trolls on ships! At least not without strong magic or being tied down like cargo. A good way for entire kingdoms to escape trolls. Just load up ships and head out with a rag tag fleet looking for Earth...
There was a table way back, in Best of the Dragon I, that gave the densities of common substances. Iirc it was for golem construction or some such. Of course it is worth noting that humans are overall less dense than beefsteak, we have lungs, and gastro-intestinal tracts and such that bring our overall density down. A rock troll on the other hand is likely to be solid rock...
I do always find it fascinating that we never blink at the game's presumption of the existance of fairies, but go all to pieces trying to make them obey the laws of physics.
Dragons are an especially fun case of this. I have seen players go to extremes of calculating wing area, hollow bones, airsacs, lift from flamebreath etc to make possible the flight of a dragon, all the while missing the point. The point being you are talking about a firebreathing, talking, spell casting, lives for a thousand years, giant lizard! I guess all that is easy to swallow, it's the flying that's the hard part. ;-)
Mind you the idea of a rock troll crashing through a castle drawbridge because he's just that heavy is funny... Or think about KSA's giant scorpions the size of barges...they would tear themselves to pieces the first time they tried to move. Chitin is just not that strong, if you give the creature the muscle power it needs to move it will either terar itself apart from the inside, or if you add internal bracing to the chitin exoskeleton, it will become so heavy as to be incapable of moving...
Yeah, I see all of that, Horsa. It's pretty clear that big flying critters have to have magic to function, on several levels. We ended up with 1/1000 fairies because I protested at the 1/10 fairies in 7.0 ed; that translates to a specific gravity of 100, about five times more dense than the densest terrestrial material (which happens to be platinum, of all things). I wanted to go back to the 5 ed version, which was 1/200, which is somewhere between aluminum and bronze. It backs up the idea that fairies are much tougher, pound for pound, than full size critters.
Another one of those rules of thumb: A horse is built about on the scale of a double height human, and an elephant is built about on the same scale as a triple height human. For a biggish horse and a smallish elephant, anyway.
Post by hrrrothgarrr on Feb 4, 2009 13:03:11 GMT -5
I remember a discussion in physical anthropology class once that bipeds, like humans. have no theoretical limit on stature. This came up in reference to Gigantopithecus and Sasquatch both 8-12 foot tall humanoids. So a meat troll should be able to walk just fine. I suppose that means that a meat fairy should be fine too... After all squirrel monkeys are pretty small, and mice are even smaller.
Pity the fool who tries to backhand a 1/10 7.0 fairy. A twenty pound mosquito is not something I would like to swat in midair...
It cojures up a mental picture of a bunch of burly warrior types with broken hands and a flying fairy pulling faces at them ;-)P
The article that Ken wrote for Different Worlds magazine, called Ten Days in the Arena of Khazan, had a brief comment on the structural strength of bones and the oxygen carrying capacity of blood in respect of Giants. I don't know how accurate it was though. "that company" have reprinted the article, I believe.
Post by Mhegrrrim Skulltosser on Feb 5, 2009 22:50:40 GMT -5
Very cool discussion. I think the Fantasy RPG world has missed a lot of interesting gaming opportunities. I could see a bronze density fairy having higher CON vs a tin density fairy. I see why so many artists paint fairies to look more like gigantic bugs. The density has to come from somewhere...
Don't forget Rock Trolls are just silicon based lifeforms. No reason to assume they have the same density as ordinary rock. Perhaps they are just 3% denser than the carbon equivalent. (still it seems the size cubed problem still leaves them massive enough ) I think it might be fun to victimize trolls with physics! Bridges are very important structures to aid movement. Sure a Rock Troll doesn't breathe the same, but does the army want to wait for the trolls to unstick themselves from river bottoms while the other troops just walk across the bridge?
There are a ton of fun opportunities for Trolls in this RPG!! Thanks for sharing such great info!