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Post by ProfGremlin on Jan 17, 2011 14:17:41 GMT -5
I completely understand. I used to shoot English longbow back when I worked with the Renaissance Faires. Between that and the classes I took in college shooting modern recurve bows, the charts seemed a bit off to me as well. Now, I will say that my experience differs a little from yours. In college, I shot a simple 35 lb. recurve bow with no sights, I felt happy when I hit a three foot target at 50yds. Alternatively, at the same time, I trained at an indoor shooting range with the Ren guild I was a member of. I was shooting a 55 lb. English longbow. At 20yds we were routinely shooting at business cards. On occasion we broke arrows simply from clustering our shots to close together. A real pain with handmade arrows. Now, this is in complete contradiction to my experience with a slingshot. I have one of those Marksman folding slingshots. I shoot in the backyard with my son on occasion. At ten yards I'm happy to hit the soda can one out of five times. I guess the charts may be a balance between the extremes. I would think that a nice little level bonus would reflect the character working with a ranged weapon and having the experience to make the shot. Say "Add the characters current level to your missile roll". Then again, using Dex and Luk for the adds kinda already does that indirectly as those can be boosted when you level up. Ok, so we've now completed our circuit of the mulberry bush and I'm going to shutup and stop babbling... :/ |
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Post by monstermike on Jan 17, 2011 14:47:09 GMT -5
That's actually built in to v. 7.5 mechanics. You can add your character level to a near-miss SR to just squeak by, and I assume that would apply just the same to missile attacks.
I agree, the missile tables must be a sort of average of harder-to-aim weapons and easier-to-aim weapons. The only thing I've ever been able to hit with a sling (not a slingshot, but an actual sling like Bitsa's) is my own head. Fumble. Ouch.
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Post by Aramis of Erak on Jan 20, 2011 3:14:04 GMT -5
Mike: having done combat archery in the SCA, it's actually not anywhere as easy to hit a man charging you as a hart running from you. Especially since he can see your aim.
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Post by gaptooth on Jan 25, 2011 12:05:10 GMT -5
I'm using a system for AP that Khenn Arrth recommended somewhere. I think it has a certain elegant logic to it. It goes something like this: You have separate buckets for AP. One bucket for each attribute, and one bucket for general AP. If you defeat a foe, or obtain some big general objective of the adventure, you get general AP that can be used any way you like. When you make a SR, you get AP toward that attribute specifically. So, after a SR on LK, I may say "take 12 AP toward LK" meaning that you can apply those AP toward your LK attribute. This makes sense to me in a way. It doesn't make much sense to go through an adventure doing a bunch of things with your brain - say a bunch of SR's on IQ - and then use the AP to up your STR attribute by a few points. If you worked your brain, you probably got smarter! What about Wizardry? The WIZ ability doesn't provoke Saving Rolls, but I've been using it all the time. Is the General AP the only bucket available for increasing WIZ? If so, no problem. Just wanted to make sure I'm tracking it correctly-- I've been using an index card for my records, since it's easier than editing the online character post every time I cast a spell.
Also, is it okay to spend AP at any time, as long as we announce it in the OOC thread? Or do you prefer if we only spend AP at designated "Save Points" or something similar. As far as I can tell, there are no rules to govern this in 7.5, apart from the suggestion to reward AP on a continuous basis. When I'm running it, I let the players spend AP to advance their ability scores whenever they want, but I can see merit in the "Save Point" approach. |
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Post by monstermike on Jan 25, 2011 12:48:04 GMT -5
I realized a few weeks ago that I've been crediting AP from your spells toward INT when they should really be credited toward WIZ. Use any of the INT AP you want toward increasing your WIZ at the appropriate time.
The way I usually play is that a character can only spend AP to increase attributes between adventures - there is time that must be spent learning and training and practicing your skills. But I'm perfectly open to a discussion among the players of how they would like to deal with it in this game.
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Post by gaptooth on Jan 25, 2011 13:25:07 GMT -5
I realized a few weeks ago that I've been crediting AP from your spells toward INT when they should really be credited toward WIZ. Use any of the INT AP you want toward increasing your WIZ at the appropriate time. Cool, thanks! The way I usually play is that a character can only spend AP to increase attributes between adventures - there is time that must be spent learning and training and practicing your skills. But I'm perfectly open to a discussion among the players of how they would like to deal with it in this game. First off, that's a sound ruling and I'm glad to abide by it. The main reason to allow incremental advancement throughout the adventure is that it can increase the drama. By allowing sudden increases in ability, you can provide opportunity for those moments in heroic fiction when the protagonists have sudden breakthroughs that turn the tide of the story. By using separate AP buckets for each ability score, you already have a system that emphasizes that advancement comes from learning and training. From what I've read, the Mouse Guard RPG takes a similar approach. To advance your skills, you have to succeed AND fail a certain number of times, and once you reach the threshold, your skill goes up immediately. I haven't played it, but it strikes me as a very dramatic game mechanic. It depends a lot on the goals of the GM and the players, and it boils down to a question of what they value more: drama or simulation. I like drama more, but I can appreciate the values of verisimilitude. Ken said somewhere that he designed T&T to be like Lord of the Rings and Conan as if they were told by Marvel Comics in the seventies, and that's part of what I like about the game. I should put in a conflict of interest notice: Although incremental advancement between encounters is the way I run my games, it could shake things up in the Mines right now if you allowed it, since Aonghasan is ready to level up. |
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Post by gaptooth on Jan 25, 2011 13:33:20 GMT -5
Just found the quote: My conception of the T&T world was based on The Lord of The Rings as it would have been done by Marvel Comics in 1974 with Conan, Elric, the Gray Mouser and a host of badguys thrown in. |
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Post by monstermike on Jan 25, 2011 13:52:32 GMT -5
Aonghasan needs some DEX first. That dagger throw was pathetic. And in 7.5 he should have a DEX of 12 to cast level 2 spells, which I have been ignoring.
I didn't intend "Level up between adventures" to be viewed as a ruling. It's simply what I normally do. Frankly, I like the idea of being able to boost your attributes during an adventure, but I feel that there should be some sort of logic or cause-and-effect that could reasonably account for it.
I think we could strike a reasonable balance between verisimilitude and drama - There are going to be a few "safe" locations in the adventure where you will have some opportunity to rest and recoup. These might make good save points. If a player can make any sort of plausible argument for how they would advance an attribute or two, I would allow it. 'Nasan may even be able to level up and learn some new spells when he gets to Salazar's library. ::Grin::
Edit: Make that if he gets to Salazar's library. ::Evil Grin::
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Post by gaptooth on Jan 25, 2011 14:13:30 GMT -5
Aonghasan needs some DEX first. That dagger throw was pathetic. And in 7.5 he should have a DEX of 12 to cast level 2 spells, which I have been ignoring. That's more than fair! I have enough AP to raise Dexterity immediately when you say go, and that leaves Aonghasan with too little to level up for a while yet. The grace period you've granted suggests that maybe he had the latent ability, and it's about time to pay for it. I didn't intend "Level up between adventures" to be viewed as a ruling. It's simply what I normally do. Frankly, I like the idea of being able to boost your attributes during an adventure, but I feel that there should be some sort of logic or cause-and-effect that could reasonably account for it. I think we could strike a reasonable balance between verisimilitude and drama - There are going to be a few "safe" locations in the adventure where you will have some opportunity to rest and recoup. These might make good save points. If a player can make any sort of plausible argument for how they would advance an attribute or two, I would allow it. 'Nasan may even be able to level up and learn some new spells when he gets to Salazar's library. ::Grin:: Edit: Make that if he gets to Salazar's library. ::Evil Grin:: Cool. I don't doubt that it will be tough! |
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Post by ProfGremlin on Jan 25, 2011 14:45:10 GMT -5
I think we could strike a reasonable balance between verisimilitude and drama - There are going to be a few "safe" locations in the adventure where you will have some opportunity to rest and recoup. I was going to suggest perhaps between levels of the dungeon as a kind of mental break. Back when I gamed around a table we used to level up and other such bookkeeping at the end of each session. The levels of the dungeon could provide a kind of virtual end-of-session. I agree with you both, I prefer drama over simulation, as long as it's plausible. One of my favorite scenes is from The Quick and the Dead: John Herod: You're not fast enough for me! Ellen: Today I am. Got chills when I first saw that. |
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Post by monstermike on Jan 25, 2011 14:59:00 GMT -5
That would work too. I'll call for a time to adjust attributes between levels, and also try to work it into the game thematically as the opportunity presents itself - for example, if we ever do get into Salazar's library, that would be a logical place for any player to be able to add INT points or WIZ points. Places where you rest well or eat something good can be opportunities to boost your CON or STR attributes. If people need to clean up after something particularly messy (I have me plans...), they might be able to take a moment to boost CHR, and so forth.
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Post by gaptooth on Feb 11, 2011 13:04:47 GMT -5
Will you allow the Meditation talent from Aramis's House Rules? If so, that's what I'd like to do for 'Nasan's talent at 3rd level. |
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Post by monstermike on Feb 11, 2011 14:03:32 GMT -5
Sure - go for it.
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Post by gaptooth on Mar 17, 2011 11:33:58 GMT -5
Will you allow the Meditation talent from Aramis's House Rules? If so, that's what I'd like to do for 'Nasan's talent at 3rd level. I've been taking this to mean that the player declares the SR level being attempted. So in that case, making a L2 when a L3 was attempted would mean normal mana recovery only. That seems fair to me. How about you? |
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Post by monstermike on Mar 17, 2011 11:48:31 GMT -5
I would say you recover the mana of whatever level saving roll you make, so if you declare 3 and make 2, take 2. Your still doing meditation, but it may not be high quality meditation. Likewise, if you DARO and make level 4, take 4 - you're really in the zone.
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