Superheroic T&T

[zanshin]

Another thread in general discussion has mutated into a new superhero game with rules that have evolved away from the T&T ruleset. I welcome critiques and alternative ideas.

I have a couple of ideas about a supers that would be T&T based. It owes a bit to superhero 2044 and a lot to 7e.

3 Types of Superhero

Action Men - These are the Punishers and Tarzans of the world. They are superhumanly fit, tough and fast due to training and unusual attributes. They do not have mutant powers or extraordinary items, but are extremely adept with ordinary weapons and skills.

Mutants - The Fantastic 4 are the classic example. They have been effected in some amazing way that gives them powers that can only be seen as magical by ordinary people.

Gadgeteers - Genius clever , these heroes manufacture items that help make them exceptional. Iron Man and Batman are both examples of these.

[zanshin]

Attributes are - Strength, Dexterity, Luck, Constitution, Intelligence, Charisma.

Roll 3d6 six times,then allocate the attributes as you decide. TARO applies. Reroll any ones , except on a TARO roll of three ones where you keep them, add and roll again.

Once you have chosen your Type, modify your abilities accordingly.

Action Men - Double your Strength, Dexterity and Constitution.

Mutants - Triple one attribute of your choice OR double two attributes of your choice.

Gadgeteer - Triple your Intelligence or double your intelligence and one other attribute.

[zanshin]

Your Power Talents are determined by your ruling attribute. You get one Power Talent for every full 10 attribute points you have in that attribute. All heroes choose the one attribute that they wish to consider their ruling attribute. The number of Power Talents you have determines your level.

Action Men Power Talents - Action mens power talents represent exceptional skill or proficiency in an area. This may be any area of endeavour including skill/knowledge. It represents the equivalent of best human achievement in an area eg Olympic class swimming, international brain surgeon. Only one talent may be taken in each such area by an Action Man. It gives them a bonus dice to their Saving Roll when attempting a stunt in this area (ie roll 3d6 not 2d6, let Daro apply)

Action Men add their level to any combat rolls. When in unarmed combat they generate d6/power level as damage.

[zanshin]

Mutant Power Talents

Mutant Power Talents represent an extraordinary or magical ability. Consider the T&T spell list as a guide, with each level of such ability being one spell level.. The power may be used routinely and without cost at the level purchased. If the power is used at a higher level, temporarily reduce the Mutants ruling attribute by a cost equivalent to the spell, minus the original level, and roll on their talent at the level attempted to see if they succeed. (If the system is fleshed out more Power Talents may be formally assigned a level).

Mutants may also buy Talents in the normal T&T way, representing skill or accomplishment. Each such costs one level of power.

[zanshin]

Gadgeteer

The gadgeteers first Power Talent is in their sphere of making unique items , it could be Superhacker or Electromaster or whatever. It represents their extraordinary ability in their field, and can also be used as a talent to create a jury rigged device for short term benefit.
They may use their Power Levels for enhanced normal items - each multiple of the armours absorbtion, or bonus weapon d6 counts as a level. These items are failsafe.
They may create a Device for a cost of one power level. The device may mimic a spell or mutant power of up to the gadgeteers level. They must make a test with their main talent whenever they use the item to see if it functions correctly, against the level of the power. No spell power ups are allowed.

[zanshin]

Example Mutant

Firecaller L4

Strength - 13
Dexterity - 45
Constitution - 11
Intelligence - 12
Luck - 10
Charisma - 9

Firecaller was the result of a military psionics programme. This meant that his reactions became souped up to an extraordinary degree (triple dexterity) and he developed the power to cause oxygen in the air to ignite through an expression of Hyperadrenaline.

Power Talent 3 levels - Blasting Power - use freely at L3, each doubling of damage costs 11 dex (temporary) and requires a test on current dex at that level.
Ordinary Talent - Marine Combat Training.

[zanshin]

Example Gadgeteer

Neo, L4

Str - 10
Dex - 14
Con - 10
IQ - 48
Lk - 13
Cha - 15

Neo is a super hacker (IQ Power Talent).
His Wifi Handset Device (One level)allows him to roll to bypass electronic devices or computers and take them over. It can generate an electronic scream (TTYF) that scrambles peoples minds (one level)
He has a suit of ordinary clothing that is cunningly woven of micromesh fibres to provide protection equivalent to chain mail - fail safe device, one level.

[boysinister]

My buddy wants to run a superhero smackdown! game - this could form a good basis

[zanshin]

Ok, over to the Trollbridge for ideas, comments etc.

[kwll]

There are plenty of good ideas here, but the first thing I am looking for when I try to wrap my head around a supers game rule set is a sense of scale. That was the major contribution, I think, of the game MSH: the way to differentiate what is small from what is big, extraordinary or huge. So what would be your way to scale the strength of Superman vs. Spiderman for example, or the blasting power of Galactus vs. Darkseid vs. Cyclops? Do you define a higher limit to attributes / powers?

Also, I understood that you are trying to keep a some sort of class system. Is that wise for a super game? How do you model heroes who are mutants but also use gadgets (like Spiderman)? Is Cyborg (New Teen Titans) a mutant or a gadgeteer?

Just a few questions, but again I like the overall feel of it all.

[zanshin]

Thank you kwll for your positive response.

At this point I am setting out to create a system for starting heroes. The Types are a reference back to Tunnels and Trolls , a cross between Types and Kindreds. Depending on the GM, they could limit it to one or more Types for their campaign (Super Pulp action could be Action Men only, for example).

Items (like Spiderman) could either be a power that has a flavour of an item that operates ruleswise as a power, or it could be something the hero acquires.

There are lots of generic point buy systems out there - I was trying to give each hero type some flavour of their own. Of course some superhero examples will 'break' the system.

I would probably look to create a list of powers and their levels if this got fleshed out, but the T&T magic system is a quick fix.

If you want to up the power level, you probably make it point buy, with an assigned level for the highest attribute. Otherwise it would simply be power level developed through play.

I would be inclined to use the 7.5e rules for character development - that would make it cheaper to have a well rounded hero, but less payoff in terms of actual powers/talents.

[mahrundl]

Not a bad start, zanshin - nice and fairly simple. I need to mull it over some more, but this looks like it has potential.

[kwll]

I am still struggling mentally to see how the T&T ruleset could accommodate the supers genre. The main stumbling block for me is how to grade the difficulty of actions: what can a "normal" character do vs. what can a "super" character do. If you follow strictly the rules, after some time a T&T character could very well become "super", with attributes over 100. Taken into account the fact that DARO dice have an average result of 8.4 (which makes around 12 with a talent), there are very little chances for him to fail at certain tasks.

Take for example missile weapons. If you follow the 7th edition rules, a moving target at a remarkable distance necessitate a successful L10SR on DEX to hit with a bow. A level 1 or 2 character has no chance to succeed. A level 10 character, if he spent most of his APs on DEX, succeeds almost all the time (5% failure on 3). A level 20 character might very well be able to do that and something else of the same "power level". So it's like Green Arrow + Flash if he developed SPEED.

So the only way I can see for me to understand how to come up with rules for supers in the frame of the T&T ruleset is to be able to fill in a table like this one (the first few columns are taken from the ICONS scale table):

Level	Description	Optional Name	Attribute Value Range	SR Range
1	Weak, minimum human	Doddering, Feeble, Weak	<=8?	0?
2	Below-average human	Inadequate, Inferior, Poor	8-12?	1?
3	Average human	Average, Mediocre, Typical	?	?
4	Above-average human	Accomplished, Competent, Good	?	?
5	Exceptional human	Excellent, Exceptional, Great	?	?
6	Ideal or maximum human	Extraordinary, Remarkable, Superb	?	?
7	Low superhuman	Fantastic, Incredible, Wonderful	?	?
8	Superhuman	Amazing, Astounding, Legendary	?	?
9	High superhuman	Colossal, Inhuman, Monumental	?	?
10	Cosmic or maximum superhuman	Astonishing, Cosmic, Marvelous	?	?

The things is, even plain T&T rules, a citizen could reach attribute values of 100 if s/he lives long enough.

Sorry if it looks like I am ranting; it is just that I have been thinking about this issue for some time, and it really bothers me...

[zanshin]

The things is, even plain T&T rules, a citizen could reach attribute values of 100 if s/he lives long enough.

Sorry if it looks like I am ranting; it is just that I have been thinking about this issue for some time, and it really bothers me...

You are overthinking it in my opinion.

Only heroes will accomplish heroic deeds which merit adventure points by which they will advance their stats or obtain power levels (in this version). Same in regular T&T.

The rules are a framework for the stories you want to tell. In the GDS framework T&T leans to Gamist and Dramatist more than it does to Simulation. Again, IMO.

[kwll]

Agreed, and I might very well be over-thinking it (that's probably one of my traits ), but still, it is difficult for me to fathom how to differentiate what is supposedly "normal" from what is supposed to be "super" in the frame of the rules as they are.

Some games use a universal scale to describe that, while others use separate scales (like Truth & Justice). But it does not seem like either of these approaches would work with T&T. So I'm confused...