That beautiful house rule...

[gufnork]

So, I've been thinking lately about how wonderful it would be to have a character's dice linked directly to their stats rather than defined by how rich they are(I'm exagerating a little, maybe...). I remember seeing a house rule on someone's blog somewhere that mentioned something like this but I can't find it at all now, so I started thinking about how it might work and came up with this. Just so you know, it's just an idea and remains untested as yet.

So, for my warrior,

Roll the stats as normal,

str-16 con-13 dex-10 int-8 chr-6 lck-18

Total the character level attributes only,

str+dex+lck = 16+10+18 = 44

Divide by 10 and round accordingly,

44/10 = 4.4 = 4d6

So my warrior gets 4d6 for his stats. Now for his adds. He gets 5d6+1 for his warhammer, so simply ignore the 'd6' part and he now gets 5+1 adds = 6 adds. So now his total dice and adds are,

4d6+6

Ideally I'd like to dispense with the adds completely and simply make him a dice only kinda guy. Maybe any adds <=3 round down and >=4 round up? so,

his +6 adds are >=4 so round up to 1d6

So now his total dice are 5d6, no adds at all.

Normally he would get 5d6, +1 for his warhammer, +10 adds for his combat adds so,

Normal method = 5d6+11
House rule with adds = 4d6+6
House rule without adds = 5d6

This makes for a weaker warrior though whichever method is used. Anyone else have a similar method that doesn't make for a wimpy-warrior?

[oh, and apologies for the slight mixture of 5.x and 7.x]

[gufnork]

Here's another example character. Definitely makes for a wimpy-warrior. Just look at those Average rolls. d**n!

Str-29 Con-21 Dex-17 Int-12 Chr-15 Lck-19

[dice+adds derived from stats+weopon]

Str+Dex+Lck=29+17+19=65[/10]=6.5d6=7d6
Heavy Mace=5d6+2=5+2=7 adds
Attack=7d6+7
Average roll=31.5

[dice+adds derived normally]

Str+Dex+Lck=17+5+7=29
Heavy Mace=5d6+2
Attack=5d6+31
Average roll=47.5

Oh well, back to the drawing board...

[gaptooth]

Dec 1, 2012 8:25:07 GMT -5 gufnork said:

So, I've been thinking lately about how wonderful it would be to have a character's dice linked directly to their stats rather than defined by how rich they are...

I've been secretly working on my own dungeon fantasy hack, and this is exactly what I've done: Every ability has a rating and dice, and the dice are derived from the rating just like a Monster Rating.

[gufnork]

Yeah, I love simplicity. I've often thought it would be nice to have a CR(character rating) that everything is derived from just like the monster rating but with extras. Sounds like your game is gonna be a game after my own heart. T&T is great for messing with house rules to the point where you really do have to call it something else and release it as your own game in the end. My attempt here only really works if you change a fair amount of other stuff too. Entire weapons tables would need to be revised I think to really make it work as is. There are of course other 'fixes' I could use to force it to work but then it's that word 'force' that's just a step too far for me to do that here.

[ishtar]

Why do you bother with weapons at all, then? You've essentially made it a game of muscle-flexing, with weapons serving only as a device to transfer hits, and very little difference between the wizard's quarterstaff and the heavy mace. At higher levels, there's so little difference that it's negligible.

[gufnork]

Yes I think that's the main problem really. It really does require a complete re-write of the weapons tables for it to work effectively. Having said that, the weapon being an extension of the muscle-bound warrior rather than the main focus seems more realistic to me than the current method which in effect serves to increase the warriors skill/ability with the size of his sword. But yes, I take your point.

[order99]

Well, if you place the fighting ability entirely on the character, why not have weapons be the damage modifier? In a MS&PE experimental variant I played in awhile back (1995 or 1996 I think), the GM had modified combat to use the same 2D6 mechanic as SRs for 'a more consistent result spread'. Combat in this variant ran thus:

Each combatant rolled 2D+Personal Adds-Combat Skills such as Brawling, Pugilism etc added the Level to the roll rather than additional dice, and added to any SRs in combat. Highest roll wins of course.

Weapons now had Damage Multipliers based on how deadly they were, such as-
Naked Fist/Foot X1/2
Loaded Fist (Brass Knuckles, Blackjack etc) X1/2+2
Dangerous Weapon (Knife, Truncheon, Nunchucks etc) X1
Deadly Weapon (Machete, Saber, Axe etc) X2
Are You KIDDING ME?!?! (Running chainsaw, Two-handed sword, War Axe etc) X2+1D

Also, the GM cut the Damage Codes for most Guns roughly in half , and introduced something called a Wound Threshold(equal to 1/2 CN round up)-If you received more damage from one blow/missle than the WT, SPD was cut in half until at least minimal healing had taken place, and the PC had to make a Lvl 1 SR or be knocked down and 'helpless' for 1D rounds. As much as I like my MS&PE uncut, I have to admit that this variant gave the game more of an Action Movie feel as more PCs and NPCs actually made it to the ER after a nasty dustup...

I think a Weapon-as-damage multiplier might work in this variant you're proposing as well, although in possibly different multiples. In seems to me that an accomplished Warrior deprived of weapons and armor should still probably pummel his weight in untrained peasants senseless, but beat his fists bloody against a well-armored foe(while still winning each round) until he finally started making SRs to wrest his opponent's weapon away from him or toss him over a cliff or the like...

[djacknh]

I like the T&T system best because in this world humans are wimpy without weapons. Put a human barehanded against a bear, lion or shark, and the beast will always win. With a good weapon the human has a chance.

[gufnork]

True, but something about the weapon being the prime focus rather than the warriors inate ability just doesn't sit quite right with me. Of course this is less of an issue with high powered characters due to their personal adds being quite high but still, I think the point stands.

[zanshin]

Weapon capabilites are actually really important in a fight , when all are skilled in their use.

Unarmed combatants need to be extremely skillful and lucky to beat an armed combatant.

However , such is the elegance of T&T that weapons do become less significant (grossly powerful magic weapons apart) as people become more skilled - their adds provide more of their combat total than the weapon does.