Just to let everyone know

[Vin Ahrr Vin]

Just to let everyone know:

1. I'd like to thank both the Prof and Mahrundl for their moderation skills and determination. I think they do a great job at manning the 'bridge while I'm away.

2. I happened to log in today because I got an e-mail from JS about a thread here. There was some good stuff in the thread, but I had to make it go away. Please remember that discussion of a certain outlaw company and its founder is taboo here. The TrollBridge has been threatened with legal action if we discuss this topic and I'd rather not fight that particular fight.

3. I hate to edit threads, but I nuked the heck out of the middle of the "Life at the TrollBridge" thread. The mods are too kind to do this, but I get tired of folks arguing about topics that have no gaming content so I blasted the posts that were non-gaming. I'm all in favor of friendly conversations here, but I dislike it when folks start insulting each other. When it crosses the line, I have no problem making it go away. Apologies if this makes me a bad moderator, but that's the way I feel.

4. I noticed that there has been a lot of interest in the 5E versus 7E thing so I thought I'd weigh in. My personal feeling is that I prefer 5E to 7E, and when I founded the TrollBridge is was as a 5E-content site where 7E was just a sub-forum for those pesky 7E threads to hang out. However, I see that a lot of enthusiasm out there is for 7E so I'm fine with either seperating the sections into "old" and "modern" or blending them together with [5E] or [7E] or [all] type tags, or whatever folks here like. The T&T community is too small to fragment us into factions, and I'm just glad that there is a place like the TrollBridge where gamers can hang out and relax and chat about T&T.

Resume game chatter!

[Vin Ahrr Vin]

Also, I liked the suggestion of removing the "smite" function so entered the code sequence to get rid of it.

I know that there are still a few computer-savvy folks who know sneaky ways to get around this, but I ask everyone to "exalt" but not "smite".

[devadasi]

with all due respect.... and i mean that very sincerely, I think you missed the point? At least what "the point" was in my eyes.

Why would you edit out the heated discussion in "Life on the Trollbridge" and LEAVE the "girls are Wimps" thread, which started this whole mess in the first place? ( on purpose I might add) Is that thread "legitimately about gaming?"

We've gotten rid of the "smite" function, because you know, this guy who came to the bridge very recently, and posted a series of horribly sexist statements, started to feel uncomfortable because of it. Nevermind that it became clear that his intent from the beginning was to get people upset as opposed to adding "game oriented" material to the Bridge. But whatever.

And we've found a way to clear up the whole 5e vs.7e problem here ( which HONEST TO GOD, does'nt even exist) and all the while, NOT ONE WORD or thought to addressing the issue that actually made most people here uncomfortable.

Now that we've gotten rid of that smite button, and put a fence up between 5e and 7e we sure don't have to worry about that sexism thing anymore.


Over and Out.

[skathros]

Vin, my first exposure to T&T was with 7E, but it was through the 'bridge that I happened upon 5E...and I never looked back! Because of the 'bridge, I hunted down and purchased every bit of 5E (and older) stuff I could get my hands on! So for me, it was a blessing to have 7E and 5E all mixed up on the bridge.

+1 to the support mods! You've done a great job.

devadasi, the war is over. You won. Enough already. gufnork's off-coloured and inappropriate attempt at humour might have made the atmosphere at the 'bridge a little uncomfortable, but you're just extending the unease. He got the point. He decided to take a break. That's that. Honestly, i'm not sure what you want.

Mar 8, 2013 7:31:23 GMT -5 devadasi said:

Over and Out.

Good bye...again.

[zanshin]

I'm going to agree with devadasi that if you are going to heavily moderate the Life at Trollbridge thread, then the 'Girls are wimps...' thread (just the title alone raises my hackles) also deserves strong moderation.

[devadasi]

What did I "win"??




Vin has edited out the heated discussion. No problem.

He has LEFT the totally offensive folder that started the entire mess. am i missing something?

Why yes! I AM missing something! I am "missing" how we need to make this board a safer more accepting place for the instigator of this whole incident. The guy who wrote the nasty stuff in the first place.HE needs to not feel "chastised". ( and to show just how okay it all is, we wave our wand of karma restoration, and "remove thy smites, sir knight... and thy enemies beaten back, we leave evidence of your good works for all to see."


Vin doesn't get it, Skath doesn't get it, this board doesn't get it. I had dropped this whole issue. I had moved on. But if you are going to take a bunch of action to "make it all better", well, I just would have chosen differently.

I really am done with it this time. I feel branded as the uptight feminist. And i am not sure you can remove that "uptight chick" aura once its established.


I have frittered away a lot of time here. Probably time better spent actually gaming or in my garden. Other than coming to copy and save some of my written material here, i am gonna kinda retreat and leave this particular bridge to these particular bridge trolls.


What do i want? nothing. fuhgeddaboutid

[trrebmahl]

I have to agree with devadasi as well. I am not a fan of heavy moderation (I don't like the idea of deleting comments left and right, sometimes letting bad comments stand and speak for themselves is best), but it seems strange to protect the guy who stirred up the "hornet's nest" as someone aptly put it, and to leave the provocative post untouched. I appreciate all the work the moderators do. Mahrundl and Prof did a great staying level headed under trying circumstances. And I understand and sympathize with the difficult position you are put in Vin to have to weigh all of this. But if the net result of this debacle is that devadasi, someone who has contributed greatly here for quite awhile, has been driven away from the bridge, something has gone wrong. I really hope that this is not how things shakeout.

[devadasi]

if there had actually BEEN any "war", (and i was never at "war" here..), then i would maintain that i LOST.... since the odious sexist folder remains, the fact that it was ever called out as offensive has been deleted, and the forums very functionality, (the ability to smite) has been changed to afford protection to the one person who saught to create a conflicy from the beginning, and i am now the officially uptight chick who won't let it go.

Will my "winnings" be taxed?

[ProfGremlin]

I'd like to sound off on all this but the reality is that I need to get ready for a meeting and simply don't have the time at this exact moment. If folks can be patient for the afternoon (maybe a day due to timezone differences), let me get in touch with Mahrundl and Vin and see what I can work out. Loosing you, Devadasi, as I've maintained from the beginning, is most definitely not an outcome I'm going to accept without taking action to address the issues as fairly as possible.

Please, be patient with us while we put our heads together.

[gaptooth]

I cannot express the colossal shock I feel seeing this. This is rash and deeply offensive to reason.

I have long valued this forum as the best place to share and discuss questions and ideas about T&T, and one of the principles I treasure is being able to reason together, even when we disagree. I understand that sometimes moderators have to step in to sanction errant commenters or remove extreme content, but usually it's important to signal members, most of whom participate with good will, with escalating warnings before taking such permanent actions.

As a web developer, I support Vin's responsibility as a site owner to own every pixel of this website, to assure that this forum remains an constructive and vital resource that contributes value to its members. But contrary to Vin's assertion above, not all the posts he edited were off-topic or exchanges of insults-- some of them focused on the query Mahrundl raised in the opening post, with thoughtful attention to constructive, reasoned discussion --but you can't see that now.

The fundamental problem is that we participate with good will, hewing to our own standards of civility and reason, and most of the moderation around here suggests that those standards are mostly held in common. But this action shows that there are no articulate standards that govern what content is acceptable and what content isn't, at least not yet.

Anyway, I get that now. Despite the pervasive good will of most members and moderators, and the mostly common standards of civility and reason, this forum is ultimately governed by unreasoning whim. I remember many interactions with Vin that prove he is a better moderator than this, but I'm not interested in participating when unreasoning whim is the standard for destructive moderation.

Anyone who wishes to stay in touch, send me a private message or hit me up on my blog's contact form. The blog will be moving soon, since Posterous is shutting down, but you can also reach me on Google+.

[Toad-Killer-Dog]

NO, just NO d**n it!

Did you even bother to read the posts you deleted?

Gufnork intentionally started a misogynist trolling thread ( if you don't believe me, just follow the links you deleted to two other forums WHERE HE SAYS HE DID IT HIMSELF ).

You want the links? I still got'em, there're not going away. I got some other good ones I didn't post because they might be construed as a personal attack, go them too if anyone is interested!

This was not off color humor and if it was why the hell was it not removed as the instigation of the incident in the first place, nope get rid of the response instead.

Thats like cutting off the limb to save the GANGRENE!

Gufnork was pedaling abusive passive-agressive BULL S-H-I-T!

Did you bother to read his posts, I think my favorite was in "What Happened" were he suggest Deva take some time off from the board and MOCKS her with a crying face smiley!

God I bet he is laughing his ass off right now, well mission accomplished you broke the board and alienated just about everyone.

But credit where its due, he couldn't wave a magic Mod wand and make all reason and sense disappear, thanks for that particular kindness.

It should tell you something that the smite button has NEVER been a problem before.

We had moved on, we had taken care of this and GAHHHHHH!

You NEED to delete the "Girls are Wimps" thread, nothing was accomplished there but petty spiteful trolling by a sexist twelve year old hoping to stir up some trouble to amuse himself.

It has been posited by some throughout this attack that we cannot place the value of of one Bridge member above another, however when so many rise in opposition to so obvious an injustice it becomes imperative that the actions of one to damage the whole cannot be ignored.

[zanshin]

I'm going away for a week now, and I really hope that the mods can fix this to the general satisfaction of the bridge, because I greatly value this place. If the Bridge loses devadasi and Gaptooth we will be immensely the poorer for it. T-K-D has expressed my feelings very well.

Good luck folks.

[skathros]

Mar 8, 2013 10:45:23 GMT -5 devadasi said:

, and i am now the officially uptight chick who won't let it go.

Careful about putting words in my mouth. It might have worked with gufnork, but I won't allow it with regards to myself. If you want to quote me, quote me honestly and properly, thank you very much. As far as I know, nobody (I or anyone else) called you an "uptight chick". I did said you wouldn't let it go.

It's very easy to complain about moderation, obviously a few dont agree with some of what Vin did...and that's okay. But regardless of wether you like it or not, this is Vin's house, and Vin's decision.

[skathros]

Mar 8, 2013 13:10:02 GMT -5 Toad-Killer-Dog said:

Gufnork was pedaling abusive passive-agressive BULL S-H-I-T!

Seriously

He posted inappropriate crap. That's what he did. C'mon, let's not demonize the guy for an off-coloured thread. I don't know, maybe my time at DF gave me a thicker skin...

Let me know when someone posts about gufnork kicking puppies on his time off. ;D

[ProfGremlin]

Ok, folks, I'm back for just a few and need to run out the door again. Regardless of anything else, it's clear that folks are upset by how the mods have handled this situation. I'm truly sorry for that. Sometimes we need to be careful how we say something or what action we take because, rightly or not, our posts carry more weight in the community.

I've just made an executive decision and the offending 'Girls are Wimps' thread has been removed, not just removed from sight but every single post deleted. At the moment, that's the best I can offer everyone without exceeding my authority further. This is, after all, Vin's 'board and I have to respect his decisions and wishes.

As a moderator, I have to take into account not just what I may want to do or say, or how my words and actions may be interpreted but also what may best serve the community. It's clear that we failed you in that last regard by allowing the offensive thread to linger too long. I'm sorry for that.

I'm tied up with physical world issues and need to step away from the computer for a bit. Please know, that I look at every post and read all my PM's. If anyone would like to discuss an issue more privately, please send me a PM and I'll be happy to do so. I even have email available, upon request via PM, for those that prefer discussion in that context.

Once again, I'm sorry we let you down.