|
Post by artikid on Mar 9, 2013 14:25:53 GMT -5
Anybody here tried resolving SRs using three dice and TARO instead of two dice and DARO? I have this -maybe silly- idea it would make the game "smoother" but I'm not an expert in statistics....
|
|
|
Post by Toad-Killer-Dog on Mar 9, 2013 20:08:06 GMT -5
I'm not a wiz with probabilities but I think that using three instead of two dice would would flatten out the "Adds and Rolls Over" side of the equation quite a bit.
Its just not as likely that you'd generate three identical numbers with three six-siders as you would with two dice.
Of course if you want to flatten out the "Adds and Rolls Over" side of SR's it would actually work very well.
|
|
apn
5th Level Troll
Posts: 578
|
Post by apn on Mar 9, 2013 20:13:39 GMT -5
I've been toying with a (kinda) similar idea.
Roll 3D6 + stat vs target number (TARO applies)
If you have a relevant skill/talent, roll an extra 1D6 per skill/talent level. Keep the three dice you want to use, dump the rest (I think this is a 'roll and keep' method). This is called a 'Bonus Die' and the GM could award a bonus die if you had help or something that could aid you in some way, so not just if you have an applicable talent.
A penalty die is the opposite. The GM rolls one or more Penalty dice and picks the worst three dice for you to use.
Bonus and Penalty dice cancel each other out. If you have three bonus and two penalty dice, roll only one Bonus die.
Example:
Karg the Fighter climbs a tree. He adds Dexterity to the check and has Climbing Skill 1. Player rolls 4D6 and gets 6,3,3,1. He picks 6,3,3, and adds Dex. Hopefully he beats the target number.
Later Karg tries to climb a tree. It's dark, raining and he's been chased by a Troll. The GM applies three Penalty Dice. One is cancelled out by Kargs Bonus die (from his Climbing skill) but there are five dice rolled and the GM chooses the worst three. Add Dex, but chances are Karg will slip, trip or otherwise fail to get up the tree and have to face that Troll!
Power Dice are rolled after Bonus/Penalty dice and the stat is applied. Then roll the Power Die/Dice. Add that to the total. You can't get a TARO with power dice, but it can help you with one or more points added to your total.
Example:
Karg is in deep trouble. The Troll is getting closer. He remembers his gloves, bought from that nutty old peddler on the road miles back. "Elp ee they will! Only three gold! Wait, wait! 1 Gold an' five silver, an' me n th' dog'll be eatin' swill fr th' next month! Final offer!"
He pulls them on and tries to climb the tree again. The GM states that Karg has tried and failed at the tree once, so gets another Penalty die (the Troll is closer, he's really rushing now). Six dice are rolled (normal three plus 3 Penalty) and the Gm picks the worst three, then adds Kargs Dex. Arggh! Three points short!
But wait! The gloves ARE magic, and add a power die! A roll of... four!
He climbs into the tree just as the Troll gets there!
I realize it's altering one of the basic mechanics of T&T so won't be to everyones taste. It's a mechanic I'll use for my on/off D&D/T&T alike (I can't call it a clone, cause its not, and people on forums jump down your throat for even daring to think of using the word...)
It will use something along the lines of the T&T combat system, just with 3 dice, Bonus/Penalty and Power dice (for example a creatures Size adds power dice if they hit in combat. That troll, if it beat karg in a combat round, would add +2 power dice to its attack, and Karg would be in serious trouble!) The beauty of the T&T system is that combat is fast and produces a winner of every combat round just about every time. Plus the open ended rolls mean even the lowliest kobold has a shot of taking you out.
Finished? The eleventeenth of never, but I've not given up on it. The biggest challenge is squeezing it into a dozen pages or so as I hate reading rules, for the most part, and wouldn't want to inflict it on others when there are so many other games/rules sets out there.
|
|
|
Post by Toad-Killer-Dog on Mar 9, 2013 20:33:42 GMT -5
Thats a quick and simple way of working in a skill system without bogging your game down with a separate mechanic.
I would suggest making the Skills/Talents fairly broad ( no "left-handed parrying daggers" skill ) for one thing it speeds things along and for another it addresses the only potential problem I see, the GM penalty dice.
As a mechanic it works fine, but I have a quick question.
In the second example Karg had one bonus die and the GM leveled a three die penalty to his climb roll.
One of the penalty dice was canceled out by the bonus die leaving two penalty dice, so why does the GM get to pick the three lowest dice?
Shouldn't he get to only pick the two lowest and the let the player choose the third?
That way the player could voluntarily choose a lower rolling die to still get TARO or choose the highest die to increase their outcome total.
|
|
apn
5th Level Troll
Posts: 578
|
Post by apn on Mar 9, 2013 20:46:59 GMT -5
If you have one or more penalty dice the lowest three dice are always picked (so ANY Penalties are a really bad thing!) but in the example there were originally Three Penalty Dice (Dark, raining, chased by troll) and one was cancelled out by Kargs climbing skill (level 1). The final time Karg tries to climb the tree he gets an additional penalty die because "The GM states that Karg has tried and failed at the tree once, so gets another Penalty die (the Troll is closer, he's really rushing now)."I figure the 'try, try, try again' approach is fine, but whack a penalty die on every time you try without taking time to try a different approach, especially when rushed (as Karg was) With the example of rolling only one or two Penalty Dice I guess you could try the Player choosing the remaining die/dice. That way you are only penalised for the penalty dice and not all of the dice. Will do a bit of head scratching on that... In the example above let's say Karg has a bonus die (from Climbing: 1) and three Penalty dice. That equates to two Penalty dice (a bonus and penalty die cancel each other out) so the Gm picks two, the player the other die. Five dice in total are rolled. Dice roll 6,3,1,4,2 GM picks 1 and 2, player picks 6 If the GM were picking all three (as originally written) the 3 would get picked (worst three 2,1,3) as opposed to 2,1,6. I see your point - it can make quite a big difference. I'll change it
|
|
|
Post by Toad-Killer-Dog on Mar 9, 2013 23:22:57 GMT -5
Actually if you come up with a chart of standard difficulty modifiers for missile and melee combat you could use that as your core mechanic. Example: Rolph Logbrockson has a spear and is fighting a goblin armed with a short sword, he has two bonus dice in spear and a Dex ( or agility or whatever ) of 15 and the goblin has a Dex of 10 and one bonus die with swords. Rolph rolls five dice 3,6,3,2,1,3 and of course chooses to TARO ( I don't know if you get bonus dice on the TARO so I'll assume not ) and rolls a further 5,2 and a 4 giving him a combat total of 35 The Goblin rolls four dice 3,4,6 and a 2 and ends up with a combat total of 20 clearly the loser You could then choose to do standard weapons damage plus adds or even deal out the difference between the two totals with modifiers as damage. If you wanted to get a tad bit more complicated you could even introduce modifiers for combat advantages or disadvantage ( Rolph's spear has a much greater reach than the goblins short sword, or attacking from surprise ). I would recommend working strength into combat directly not just at the results end, otherwise Dex is going to end up as the single most desirable attribute for non-mages. You could do something very similar for magic, different spells have different difficulty ratings and you use your IQ ( or whatever ) plus your skill in a specific type of magic to generate the needed total. I confess the magic idea comes from an alternative spell system I designed a few years back, but its still a good idea! P.S. I'll check back in later have to dash roasting a chicken! ;D
|
|
apn
5th Level Troll
Posts: 578
|
Post by apn on Mar 10, 2013 4:22:59 GMT -5
Have been using stat as bonus (including for melee combat skill (adds) and missile combat skill), even going so far as to add ALL stats together to find the adds (so fighting smart, having better fitness, being able to spot your opponents next move, determination not to give in all count as much as Strength and Agility) Also been toying with stats from -3 to +3 (roll 1D6 three times for each, apply -1 modifier on 1, +1 modifier on 6, one stat is rerolled with 5-6 giving +1) but at the moment stats range from 1-6, with a bonus from non human races (Elves are +1 Agility, Perception and Intelligence, for example) Magic would involve a Task check (roll over target number) with each point over TN allocated to Range, Duration or Effect at the players choice. Again, TARO applies. Example:
Bereneth the Mage casts a Magic Arrow spell at an Orc (who is charging, and gets a Bonus die to attack Bereneth in the next round). Target number for Spell is 11. The Orc is 20' away, and each point of spell check over target number adds either:
20' range 1 Round duration (it floats around next to the mage and waits to go off at his command) 1 point of damage, ignoring non magical armour and automatically hitting
The player rolls to cast the spell. Bereneth has Spell Casting (Level 2) so rolls two Bonus Dice. The dice come up 5,3,3,6,3. He chooses triple 3, then rolls 4,2,2 for a total of 17 rolled, plus Bereneths Intelligence modifier of +4. 21-11 (target number) means 10 points to allocate. 1 goes into range (20') and 9 into damage which ignore the Orcs leather armour and hits automatically!
Chances are the Orc will be stopped in his tracks or decide Bereneth is too tricky to take on, and turn tail!Stats are: And character creation is pretty quick (I took your advice and made general skills rather than specific skills): The plan was (and is, if I ever finish it) to marry superfast T&T style mechanics to the D&D OGL (spells, monsters etc). I haven't bothered putting Classes in, so you pick a race and could have (if you had enough skill points) a spellcasting warrior thief priest if you like Character creation takes a minute or so of rolling then choose skills & equipment and go
|
|
apn
5th Level Troll
Posts: 578
|
Post by apn on Mar 10, 2013 4:42:40 GMT -5
Health is 2x Endurance plus Strength. Luck is 1D6 (2D6 for humans) and each Luck point can be used to increase a task check chance with a Bonus die, or absorb 1D6 damage after taking a hit. Characters don't increase in stats or health that often (skills would be cheaper to increase) and Luck points replace having a huge health or hit point total. I never liked the way high level fighters sometimes had more hit points than Dragons A monster stat block might look like (haven't got to writing that bit down so off the top of head): HobgoblinStrength 2D6, Agility 1D6, Endurance 2D6, Intelligence 1D6 -2 (min 1), Perception 1D6, Will 1D6 -2 (min 1) Movement: medium speed Disposition: Nasty Skills: Club level 1, Hide/Sneak level 1, Long distance running level 2 Armour 5 point Leather and Shield. Weapon: Club +4 With individual stats you have options other than fighting monsters. If you can get it to listen an Intelligence vs Intelligence check could see you outwitting it, especially with a Bluff or Fast Talk skill... Roll each monster as and when it comes up - no two would be alike, just like humans! Weapons add a bonus point of damage (added to the difference between attack/defence totals) in combat up to their maximum. Combat would look like this: Karg (Combat Skill 19, 2 Bonus Dice with Sword +8, Armour 8, Health 13, Luck 8) vs an Orc (Combat Skill 17, 1 Bonus die with Club +4, Armour 5, Health 14)
Karg rolls 10, total 29. Orc rolls 8, total 25.
4 points difference, plus 4 from sword for 8 damage. This is reduced to 3 points from the Orcs armour.
Next round Karg gets a triple and his total is 42. The Orc gets a total of 30. 12 points difference, plus 8 (the maximum for the sword) from the sword means 20 damage, reduced to 15 by the Orcs armour.
The orc goes down!Note that PCs get luck but if you wanted combat to last longer give the monsters 1D6 luck as well. Using 1 or more luck points can make a real difference and have the combat see-saw in both directions... If a character wants to avoid an attack instead of attacking they add a power die to their total. If they win that round, they inflict no damage on their foe, but avoid taking damage too. Missile weapons have a target number of range (1 per 10' plus Agility of target) - gonna play about with this, maybe restricting missile adds to Agility+Perception. Anyway, this is just idea bouncing. To the Original Poster, sorry for jumping on your thread!!! I cooked up a few of these ideas over a year ago (think there is a thread entitled 'Shameless Ripoff Homebrew' round here) and come back to it/add/delete/start over every so often. Toyed with ditching levels (get exp points use to buy skill increase, new skill or stat increase) and classes - buy any skill you like and multi class to your hearts content! If you have a high skilled character you can choose to set aside some of your bonus dice in case you roll a triple with the ones you use. if you are really, REALLY skilled you might save some more for rolls beyond the second or third! Example: Lord Zorg has 1 Handed Edged (swords etc) Skill of 10! Usually on his first attack he'll use 5 Bonus dice, get a triple and use the other 5 to help get a triple on the next roll. Chances are his attack is so accurate the damage from the sword is just a small part of the attack as he finds the opponents weakness near on every time!EDIT: Have a 2 year old crawling over me and mixed up stats for an orc with a Hobgob from my notes. After re-reading my maths were all over the place... Doh.
|
|
apn
5th Level Troll
Posts: 578
|
Post by apn on Mar 10, 2013 5:08:22 GMT -5
Arrggh. Just seen the text wall...
Really sorry to original poster, suggest we take the discussion elsewhere TKD! Sorry for the thread jumping on!
|
|
mosker
5th Level Troll
Posts: 520
Member is Online
|
Post by mosker on Jul 31, 2023 15:19:04 GMT -5
Anybody here tried resolving SRs using three dice and TARO instead of two dice and DARO? I have this -maybe silly- idea it would make the game "smoother" but I'm not an expert in statistics.... Check out Sarah Newton's Lair of the Leopard Empress. Three-die special talents and stunts are a nice way differentiate kin and calling (and give a little hope and/or utility) to those who rolled poorly or are facing an otherwise mismatch of character to adventure in terms of challenges (difficulty and type).
|
|