Talents and Deluxe T&T

[machfront]

Mar 3, 2014 23:18:59 GMT -5 quoghmyre said:

I have never seen a player come to the character creation, start of game with any idea of what his character is or will become. One of the greatest parts of T&T is meeting this bumbling noob character and then see them grow and develop through the trials and tribulations of a fantasy adventure. Not one of the many players I played with would want to write a paragraph! about anything, lol.

Ha ha!
Yeah, I can dig it. Though as cram mentioned I was really talking about basically scratching down a brief outline of a background. I've personally never experienced a problem with someone who couldn't or with someone who ended up wanting to write an epic tale (though I've no doubt at all of what others have experienced to the contrary).
I would think the actual counter to my view would be: "But, Eric, they could just scratch down a Talent or two and be done with it and it/they would 'speak' to their background...and done and done." to which my response would have to be: "Um. Yeah. You're right. ....but I like the other way because...because reasons."
But really I just prefer granting a bonus that isn't locked in and overall it just seems more malleable than a Talent 'score'. *shrug*

[machfront]

Mar 15, 2014 12:06:22 GMT -5 dekh said:

Conan's leadership was mostly intimidation and he wasn't very good because he always seemed to have lost everything between stories.

I guess it depends how it plays out in the new rules. I don't mind a character having a small edge at picking locks but it takes years to become a blacksmith which is time spent not training to be a warrior or wizard so if a character is highly talented at something (not related to their type) what has to give to make the time up?

I can see it easily with Rogues but not Warriors and Wizards.

This can be difficult for me to settle on (though by default I just let it ride assuming folks have things they learned before their attentions turned to whatever pursuits they focused on for adventuring).
I know real life warriors old and young who are skilled and/or talented in a number of non-warrior things: art, poetry, photography, jeweler, amateur astronomy, etc. just as I know fellows who lean more towards...well...whatever and also have plenty of warrior skill to allow them to be, in my view at least, 'warriors' as these things go (more so than myself since I'm mostly a handgun guy and have shot at only a handful of IDPA and GSSF events), such as a buddy who is a lifelong trucker and mechanic and over the past few years impressively skilled in MMA and shooting.

Having said that, combat skills especially can easily and quickly deteriorate (there's a term for this that I can't think of at the moment as I'm tired). Add to that that "Warriors" aren't simply skilled men-at-arms or soldiers but perhaps fellows who've over-dedicated themselves to the point that they aren't simply prepared to engage on the battlefield but instead the far more dangerous and unpredictable world of adventuring.

[Mhegrrrim Skulltosser]

I always hope Talents will just be a flat bonus. Want to increase the bonus, buy the same Talent twice!

But then many other played that way for years (including Bear Peters). He just demanded the players role play earning the bonus. Example, I bought a lock pick set. Let me try to pick the lock. Hey, I have been picking locks since level 1, gimme a bonus. I am a thief. Or so said the warrior, rogue, wizard, US citizen, foreign paragon, warrior wizard, wizard warrior, priest, whatever.

Role playing is fun. Light weight rules are more fun.

Who should have a Talent? Anyone.... Rolling up a character and don't know what Talent to have. Don't take one. When I GM, I am fine with someone saying later on in the game, hey, my meemah used to tell me stories about the 9th demon of 14th level. I can use that knowledge to have a Talent Fool Demons into Bottles

[gabe]

Hey, folks. New to these boards. Never played T&T in my life, but have lots of other rpg experience. Own Deluxe. Read it twice. Thinking of trying to get some people interested in a game that I will run.

But I don’t like the Talents mechanics. Answer: just remove them. BUT the bonus Talents are a core feature of the Rogue. Anyone have ideas for me about how to excise Talents yet give Rogues something else in exchange? Otherwise I’m sure I can come up with something through play, maybe allow Rogues to scoop a little deeper into either Warrior or Wizard benefits l

[ProfGremlin]

Welcome to the Trollbridge!, gabe!

What is it about the mechanics you don't like? Defining the troublesome issue and then understanding where you'd like to end up will help us make better suggestions.

Is it the simple talent system in sec 6, the elaborated system in sec 15, the way talents are defined, i.e. more loosely than other 'crunchy' systems, etc.

[gabe]

Thanks for the warm welcome!

Yes, thank you, I can see that I should have been more specific. From a game design perspective, I see nothing at all objectionable to Talents. In fact, were I to use them, I’d probably rule that General Talents add the +3 to Attributes and Specialized Talents (which would need to be selected later under the General category) would award reductions in SR levels, with GM approval.

But, as the rules themselves point out, players often forget their Talents in relevant situations, and since all SRs is a subjective decision by the GM anyway, taking into consideration the PCs’ in-fiction experiences, Talents as a mechanic strikes me as redundant and unnecessarily “gamist.”

I also cringe at imagining a long list of haphazardly chosen Talents, say someone who is a rope-maker who also took up baking and dabbles in astronomy. I would want these Talents to reflect the actual fiction of the game play, but, again, I find formalizing it unnecessary, because of the above.

So I like the elegance of this feature of the game design, but I imagine it being superfluous and distracting in actual play.

But perhaps I’m wrong?

[zanshin]

If you are happy with a house rule fix, how about the Rogue chooses one favoured attribute, and gets to add their level to saves of that attribute.

Alternatively they could choose combat specialization - add level to combat adds, or magic specialization - choose one spell per level for which they reduce the cost by their level.

[mahrundl]

gabe, have you access to the 7th edition rules? That also used talents, but they were handled somewhat differently.

There are threads discussing the use of talents in 7th edition on the forum, such as this one.

[gabe]

Thanks for the help, everyone!

 I like both of your recommendations. In fact, zanshin has helped doubly, because I’m also liking the bonus die added outside of the die pool for use of Talents.

 I’m going to think about this and do some raw playtesting. It may be that there is in fact no problem for me to “fix.”