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Post by apeloverage on Sept 12, 2007 7:52:59 GMT -5
On the weekend I played a game of D&D, and my character bought a goat, mainly for whimsical reasons and because they were so cheap - but also I thought I might find a use for it.
Anyway, the goat fell victim to a monster, but it was in a very close fight, so the goat taking that blow might well have saved a character. We also ate it that night, so it acted as rations as well (actually I'm vegan in real life, but pretending to eat imaginary goats is OK)
I thought that was awesome value (they cost 3 silver pieces each from memory), so I announced my plan of buying an entire herd of goats. I said we could trade them on the way if we had to, in an emergency we could slaughter and eat them, they could set off traps and take damage for us...and apparently you can train them as well.
Anyway the DM said I couldn't - he had two NPCs who were guiding us announce that they refused to travel with us if we had any goats; which didn't seem to fit either of their characters at all.
The reason seems to be that it's 'not what high fantasy heroes do' - although I'd say that folklore is full of heroes coming up with similar plans, that's not the point. I can fully accept the DM saying OK, because of all these uses they're under-priced and they're now going to cost more than the Player's Handbook says. But just not allowing them seems to be enforcing doing it the way the DM would do if he was a player.
So, am I right to feel disgruntled?
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dalton
4th Level Troll
Posts: 282
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Post by dalton on Sept 12, 2007 8:48:28 GMT -5
Yes, you went to have a good RPG experience and the DM had you playing D&D. You should be extreamly upset. That alone should have told you that the DM had no imagination and could not handle a truely fun game.
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Post by Vin Ahrr Vin on Sept 12, 2007 14:15:28 GMT -5
A tricky issue, since the goal of role playing is to make both the players and GM happy. I wonder if the GM was afraid that buying and selling goats might tend to alter the mood that he was trying to present for his campaign. If that is the case, perhaps he was worried that the game might become slapstick or become an exercize in economics.
Sometimes two people are just thinking different things and they don't meet in the middle. You might try to explain again what you would like to do, and do so in a manner that won't slow the game down. Maybe he didn't want to deal with your concerns in the middle of the game?
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Post by mahrundl on Sept 12, 2007 15:23:39 GMT -5
A poor method of handling it on your GMs part, perhaps. He's missing out on increased chances of wandering monsters, the party losing the chance to surprise anything (goats aren't the quietest animals), reduced combat ability (fighting in a milling herd of goats isn't going to be easy), and a whole range of other possibilities.
And when the herd of goats come face to face with a cave lion, panic, and stampede back over the party? Pure comedy gold!
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khaydhaik
4th Level Troll
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Posts: 412
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Post by khaydhaik on Sept 13, 2007 21:50:20 GMT -5
You absolutely have the right to feel disgruntled. GMs that force the game to adhere to their own view of it are not allowing the players to build ownership of the game. The game becomes much less satisfying for players if the GM persists in that behavior.
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Post by apeloverage on Sept 14, 2007 4:56:16 GMT -5
You absolutely have the right to feel disgruntled. GMs that force the game to adhere to their own view of it are not allowing the players to build ownership of the game. The game becomes much less satisfying for players if the GM persists in that behavior. You have given the correct answer! Just wanted to know it wasn't me getting het up over nothing. It is pretty railroady, but the game's fun anyway, lots of laughs and no tensions which in my experience makes for a good game.
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Post by mahrundl on Sept 15, 2007 7:24:40 GMT -5
So, am I right to feel disgruntled? The other question is, will you ever be able to feel 'gruntled' again...
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Hogscape
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
It's not the years, it's the mileage.
Posts: 2,126
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Post by Hogscape on Sept 16, 2007 7:38:01 GMT -5
The humble goat has so many useful applications it's hard to imagine why any right-thinking adventurer would leave the tavern without one; or, indeed, an entire herd. There's nothing like snuggling up to a nice warm goat on a cold winter's night.
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Post by mahrundl on Sept 16, 2007 16:03:21 GMT -5
<must resist temptation to make bad joke about snuggling up to goats...>
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khaydhaik
4th Level Troll
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Posts: 412
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Post by khaydhaik on Sept 16, 2007 21:59:56 GMT -5
Don't knock it until you've tried it, mahrundl. Why don't you go try it now...?
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khaydhaik
4th Level Troll
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Posts: 412
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Post by khaydhaik on Sept 16, 2007 22:00:56 GMT -5
(It's your guess as to whether I was referring to "snuggling up to a goat" or "making a bad joke".)
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Post by zanshin on Dec 18, 2007 7:23:05 GMT -5
As a mainly GM , i think that it would be the herd of goats that become the issue. I , and probably the other players, dont want each session to become an issue of goat herd management.
Better ways of handling it might be Goat price inflation, goat rustlers, goat related diseases.
I do agree with Vins point above, depends on the mood the GM is trying to foster.S/He has spent time and energy on preparing scenarios etc, i think s/he is allowed some level of creative control, its just the more subtle the nature of the control generally the better.
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unclecranky
5th Level Troll
(mutter...grumble)
Posts: 657
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Post by unclecranky on Oct 5, 2008 22:39:40 GMT -5
Yeah, but as a guy who GMs more than he plays, I can tell you that this was entirely the wrong way to handle the issue. It's a variation on the 'you can't go that way because a magic wall of thorns springs up and blocks you' crap from the early games. If players don't want to fight your war, or do want to buy goats, what the hell business do you as GM have over-ruling them. If you can't get them to the war, you bring the war to them, until they feel they have to act. Let them buy the goats, then have a roc haunt the party like it's made of Lays potato chips. But under no circumstances do you forbid an action outright. That used to be one of my favorite ways to lose players.
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Post by Mhegrrrim Skulltosser on Oct 9, 2008 21:47:29 GMT -5
Everyone already provided all the good answers! Yep, I agree with the majority posts. The GM should have raised the price or had Vegan protesters get in the way alerting monsters with cries of, "Goats have right too!" "A goat is a living creature!" "Delvers are murderers!" With that said, I think talking to the GM in a non-gaming environment might go a long way. Some GMs are control freaks. Some GMs find their players are more creative than the GM and therefore do not know how to handle a player coming up with a brilliant idea (that is my usual problem as GM, d**n those players shortcutting the adventure ). Some just don't like ideas that will mess up the adventure and do not want to admit, "You've 8-balled my adventure!! Take That You Fiend." And some GMs are just jerks. Can't do anything about jerks. An ill-timed goat stampede might be a funny punishment for such a creative player. Or a kidnapping note, "I've got your goat."
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Post by Toad-Killer-Dog on Oct 9, 2008 22:47:22 GMT -5
An ill-timed goat stampede might be a funny punishment for such a creative player. Or a kidnapping note, "I've got your goat." Is there an award for most epic goat pun? As far as the original question goes, it seems like a case of overreaction on the GM's part. He could have defiantly handled any objection to your parties attempts at animal husbandry with more tact or if he had a real problem with a herd of goats on the adventure there are plenty of ways to separate the party from its Capra hircus. I think if the same kind of behavior persists its probably best if you and the rest of the players talk to him and let him know as politely as possible that being treated like that ruins the game for you. If he is a good GM he should at least listen to your point of view. For what its worth I once had a GM rip up my character sheet and throw it in my face and in situations like that the only thing you can do is walk away. That is the closest I have ever come to a physical confrontation over a gaming table. Keeping your cool is always the best revenge, if you retain your composure everyone will realize that your not the one being unreasonable. It's not much but it's better than nothing.
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