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Post by gaptooth on Feb 5, 2018 21:20:18 GMT -5
Update: I put the latest revisions in a Google docs to print out for the table, and I thought they might be useful here. House Rules DocGM stuff
We just had Session 26 on Friday and my Dungeon World game is rapidly wrapping up. I doubt it will go on more than two more sessions. Some of the players asked to do Tunnels & Trolls for our next run, and I picked the 5th edition rules as the basis for the game. As is customary, I've thought about a few house rules to flavor the game. Anything not covered by the house rules will use the rules as written in the 1979 5th edition rulebook. Character CreationRoll the attributes as described in the rules. When you roll triples on any ability score, record the total and put an asterisk by it. You may choose any of the "good kindreds"—Humans, Elves, Dwarfs, Hobbits, Faries, Leprechauns, or Weres. If you play a human, Triples Add and Roll Over: Take note of any attributes that have an asterisk, and roll these attributes again, adding the your new score to the original. Repeat until you roll something other than triples. Secret Weapon Techniques for Warriors and Warrior-WizardsWarriors and Warrior-Wizards (and certain freaky monsters)—and only these—can deal Spite Damage in combat. As defined by zanshin, "Spite, initially a houserule proposed in Sorcerer's Apprentice, is damage done when a 6 is rolled on the combat dice. One damage is always done to the opposing side for each 6 rolled, regardless of armor and the combat totals." Warriors and Warrior-Wizards can also learn and use secret weapon techniques ( Download TrollsZine 2 here). Wizards and WeaponsWizards can use any weapon their Dexterity and Strength allow, but their weapon dice are reduced to 2d6. Any additional dice count as +1 to the weapon’s Adds instead. DeathWhen any ability drops to zero, make a Saving Roll (on Luck). If you make it, you're knocked out. If you miss, you are dead. In other deadly circumstances, you might not be so fortunate to get a Saving Roll. Spells“Yassa-Massa” is renamed to “Spirit Mastery”.
I'm pondering a revision to the Languages table, but I haven't formed any clear thoughts about that yet. I'll update this thread if I take on any other house rules or rulings.
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Post by gaptooth on Feb 5, 2018 23:53:29 GMT -5
Here are some of the half-baked ideas I'm mulling over while watching a kung fu movie. Welcome to the bakery! In 5th edition, the Speed attribute is optional and it's not tied to combat Adds. But speed plays a big role in the fantasy kung fu genre. What might that look like in a 5th edition T&T game? Speed as armor. Your Speed minus 12 is your armor rating when you fight without armor. (Warriors and Warrior-Wizards only) Example: A Warrior with a Speed of 14 would get +2 armor. Speed as flight. After you activate a secret weapon technique, you can “fly” your Speed minus 12 yards per round for the rest of the combat. Example: A Warrior with 16 Speed rolls 2 spite and snatches the sword from her enemy's grip (per the Disarm technique). Until the end of combat, she can run up walls or leap 4 yards each round. First strike. Gain additional unarmed combat dice equal to (Speed - 10) / 10, dropping any remainder. This would be one way to give Warriors and Warrior-Wizards the ability to activate higher-powered unarmed fighting techniques from zanshin's I Know Kung Fu article. Example: A human Warrior has honed his skill over many levels and raised his Speed rating to 52. 52 minus 10 is 42, and 42 divided by 10 is 4, with 2 leftover. A human would usually roll 1d6 in combat, but this Warrior gets 1d6 + 4d6 extra for speed—making 5d6. I just realized that this would be identical to saying you get unarmed combat dice equal to Speed / 10, dropping any remainder, with a minimum of 1d6—and then the math is slightly easier with fewer steps! What do you think?
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Post by zanshin on Feb 6, 2018 10:11:21 GMT -5
I love all of those ideas.
Definitely makes speed worth investing in.
As an alternative to speed as armour, perhaps Warriors/Warrior wizards could take Con damage as speed damage when unarmoured, at their option. Speed recovers at the same rate as Wiz and Str does.
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Post by gaptooth on Feb 6, 2018 10:36:50 GMT -5
As an alternative to speed as armour, perhaps Warriors/Warrior wizards could take Con damage as speed damage when unarmoured, at their option. Speed recovers at the same rate as Wiz and Str does. Ooh, that's a great idea. Like you use a surge of speed to dodge the attack, but it's a limited resource. Thanks, zanshin!
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Post by gaptooth on Feb 6, 2018 10:41:18 GMT -5
Would you suggest allowing "Speed dodge" and/or "First Strike" for Wizards and Rogues in addition to Warriors and WWs?
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Post by gaptooth on Feb 6, 2018 10:54:43 GMT -5
Rewrites:
Speed dodge. You can spend Speed 1 for 1 to dodge incoming damage from attacks and moving objects. Speed recovers at the same rate as Strength, 1 point per Turn without strenuous activity. (Warriors and Warrior-Wizards only)
Example: A Warrior with a Speed of 14 takes 8 hits. She spends 8 Speed to dart out of the way.
First strike. You get unarmed combat dice equal to your Speed divided by 10, dropping any remainder (1d6 minimum).
Example: A human Warrior has honed his skill over many levels and raised his Speed rating to 52. 52 divided by 10 is 5, with 2 leftover. This Warrior gets 5d6 in unarmed combat.
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Post by ProfGremlin on Feb 6, 2018 21:57:34 GMT -5
When any ability drops to zero, make a Saving Roll (on Luck). If you make it, you're knocked out. If you miss, you are dead. And it will be truly unfortunate if it's your Luck that has dropped to zero... Speed as flight. After you activate a secret weapon technique, you can “fly” your Speed minus 12 yards per round for the rest of the combat. Example: A Warrior with 16 Speed rolls 2 spite and snatches the sword from her enemy's grip (per the Disarm technique). Until the end of combat, she can run up walls or leap 4 yards each round. This one has me a touch confused, Gaptooth. I don't get the connection between the two sentences in your example. It seems to read that the character can't use Speed as Flight without having some sort of combat interaction. The second sentence is in line with the ability's definition. Oh, wait, I get it. In order to use the ability Speed as Flight the character has to use a Secret Weapon Technique such as Disarm first so that it can trigger the second ability. Is that necessary? Couldn't Speed as Flight be implemented in the same spirit as stunting? My memory is hazy but I'm thinking about the chase scene across the roof tops or the bamboo forest in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.
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Post by gaptooth on Feb 6, 2018 23:32:43 GMT -5
When any ability drops to zero, make a Saving Roll (on Luck). If you make it, you're knocked out. If you miss, you are dead. And it will be truly unfortunate if it's your Luck that has dropped to zero... Indeed. This is an amendment of 5th edition which says you drop dead if your Constitution hits zero—or your Strength! Which means you can die from casting a spell! There's no mention of dying if your other abilities ablate. This house rule offers a second chance for the lucky, without resorting to negative hit points. But Luck is where the buck stops, and if you don't have it, I guess you're out of it, by definition. Speed as flight. After you activate a secret weapon technique, you can “fly” your Speed minus 12 yards per round for the rest of the combat. Example: A Warrior with 16 Speed rolls 2 spite and snatches the sword from her enemy's grip (per the Disarm technique). Until the end of combat, she can run up walls or leap 4 yards each round. This one has me a touch confused, Gaptooth. I don't get the connection between the two sentences in your example. It seems to read that the character can't use Speed as Flight without having some sort of combat interaction. The second sentence is in line with the ability's definition. Oh, wait, I get it. In order to use the ability Speed as Flight the character has to use a Secret Weapon Technique such as Disarm first so that it can trigger the second ability. Is that necessary? Couldn't Speed as Flight be implemented in the same spirit as stunting? My memory is hazy but I'm thinking about the chase scene across the roof tops or the bamboo forest in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Sorry. Yes, you got it! The idea is that triggering the technique gives you a lasting benefit. You can do the Crouching Tiger stuff automatically after you get that zen moment in combat where your mind clears and the moves just flow through you. But when I'm explaining the Special Weapon Techniques, I did plan to emphasize that you can still try any of this stuff at any time without scoring the Spite required—you just have to narrate the action and maybe make a Saving Roll. Spending the Spite just lets you do it as a random bonus. I don't see why it would have to be any different for the Speed as Flight move: You can attempt it at any time, but it might require a Saving Roll—or even beating your foe in a round of melee first—if you are trying to do it in a dangerous situation. Having it trigger with the special weapon technique is just an extra benefit, not a limit on what you can try. Does that make better sense?
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Post by gaptooth on Feb 6, 2018 23:34:49 GMT -5
P.S. I finally watched the Sword of Destiny sequel tonight in preparation for the new campaign! It wasn't as good as the original, but it was entertaining.
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Post by gaptooth on Feb 6, 2018 23:46:15 GMT -5
Oh, and ProfGremlin, the Crouching Tiger was the main personal influence on me shaping the Speed as Flight idea. I will definitely make sure to explain that these things can be narrated and attempted at any time.
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Post by zanshin on Feb 7, 2018 2:54:03 GMT -5
Looks like it will be a really fun campaign 😀
If you haven’t seen Chinese Ghost Story I thoroughly recommend it. Fits with Spooky Kung Fu!
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Post by gaptooth on Feb 7, 2018 11:33:53 GMT -5
Thanks for the recommendation, zanshin! I don't see it on Netflix, but I'll reach out to some friends to see if anyone might lend me a DVD. Here's another half-baked idea for the 'Bridge's scrutiny: Setting the SceneChases across rooftops, unexpected battles when negotiations go sideways in the tenements, or a bad guy fleeing into the sewers… there are times when the action breaks out in unmapped areas. And the wu xia genre embraces a common trait of action movies—any detail of the terrain, architecture, or accessories of the environment might suddenly be seized upon in a frantic conflict. When you venture into an unmapped area, the GM may call for a Saving Roll on Luck at the present "dungeon level". Anyone who makes it can suggest tactical terrain details (including furniture or dungeon dressing) they might exploit. You get one detail for making the roll, +1 for each 5 points you exceed the SR target. On a miss, the GM may describe a detail that gives your enemies an edge. During chase scenes when the scenery is continuously changing, these rolls might come between every round or even between every “move”. Example: The party is roaming the city at night in search of a masked rogue who stole the idol they purloined from the dungeon fair and square. What they don't know is that there's an ambush waiting in a bad neighborhood they'll be crossing—which counts as a level 2 "dungeon". The GM describes the sound of fleeing footsteps beyond an archway that leads into a gated neighborhood. Rough-looking youths squatting by the gate glare at them. The GM calls for L2 Saving Rolls on Luck. The Rogue makes it, scoring a total of 36—11 more than she needed! She gets to suggest 1 detail for making it, plus 2 for getting the equivalent of a Level 4 roll. The player suggests that there are clotheslines crisscrossing the streets, and there is a crooked lamp just below one of the clotheslines that could give someone enough of a boost to get up to the ropes. The Rogue ponders a third detail while another player pipes in with another question. These ideas don't contradict anything in the GM's prep, and they fit perfectly. Plus, the GM is aching to know what antics the Rogue has in mind! I stole the idea from Eero's Colonizing Goblin Lands Actual Play. But it's also informed by my recent experience running Dungeon World, which gives the GM a lot of tools to flesh out the world with help from the players.
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Post by gaptooth on Feb 7, 2018 12:13:21 GMT -5
For the "GM Screen"These aren't house rules, just interpretations and extrapolations of the 5th edition rules. In 5th edition, the Saving Roll occupies an interesting design space. It is described as the last resort when only Luck can save you, like Saving Throws in original D&D: the crap shoot to determine if you succumb to some calamity that should have killed you. But the Missile rules and other examples make it clear that Saving Rolls have now become a full-fledged ability check, which you can use to resolve any chancy actions or stunts that test the delver's abilities. Before 5th edition, Saving Roll levels were explicitly tied to the dungeon level. But in 5th, the rules don't offer much guidance on setting the Saving Roll levels—except for the missile weapon charts from section 2.33. My solution has always been to "eyeball it", and that works fine. Still, it couldn't hurt to have a loose framework within which to base one's judgments. So here's how I'll be doing that: When they are making a reactive Saving Roll to avoid some calamity, the Saving Roll will be determined by the local "dungeon level", as established by the GM. And when they are firing missiles or attempting to sway NPCs, the rules in sections 2.33 and 3.5 will be used/ But when they are proactively testing their abilities in other ways, the GM will set the Saving Roll level based on the following range: Difficulty | SR level | Target # | Note | Easy | L1 | 20 | A challenge for a chump or Level 1 dungeon fodder | Professional | L2 | 25 | Anyone trained to do this for a living shouldn't have a problem | Master | L4 | 35 | Succeed after a lifetime of training | Superhuman | L8 | 55 | Most humans will never reach this level of ability, but T&T was inspired by Marvel Comics | Demigod | L16 | 95 | Feats of Hercules, Thor, or Golden Age Superman |
Saving Rolls based on Charisma will use the Charisma Effects table from section 3.5 as a guide: SR Level | Target # | Effect | L1 | 20 | Sway one or two people | L3 | 30 | Sway a small group | L5 | 40 | Sway a village | L8 | 55 | Sway several hundred
| L18 | 105 | Sway several thousand
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"Swaying" isn't mind control. It's enough to improve their reaction by 1 level—and if their disposition is already to parley, to win a favor or strike a deal. If they can't accept your offer, they will at least tell you what they want on a successful Saving Roll.
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Post by gaptooth on Feb 8, 2018 10:12:54 GMT -5
Ha! Yesterday I remembered that 5th edition doesn't give you a way to improve Speed as you level up. So here's my list of advancement options:
When you advance to a higher level, pick 1:
A. Divide the new level number between CON, SPD, and STR as you wish; or assign the full amount to any one of these attributes. B. Add 1/2 the new level number to CHA, DEX, or INT. C. Add twice the new level number to LCK.
Example: Your Level 2 Rogue Andrest has CHA 7, CON 5, DEX 12, INT 11, LCK 13, SPD 10, STR 6. When you gain Level 3, you pick option A and add 1 point to CON, SPD, and STR—raising them to CON 6, SPD 11, and STR 7 respectively.
Example: Somehow you get Andrest to Level 4. You pick option A again, dividing 4 points between CON and STR, raising them to CON 8 and STR 7.
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Post by ProfGremlin on Feb 8, 2018 21:57:43 GMT -5
Not sure if you can use it, Gaptooth, but I came across a fantastic isometric map of what appears to be a mountain temple: Huashan Mountain View. Could make for an interesting encounter. Edit to Add: Turns out there's an enlarged, detailed view of the temple itself.
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