Buffalo Castle Deluxe T&T questions

[SilenceTheFallen]

I apologize if there is a thread already answering my questions but i did a search and and did not find relevant answers.

I'll be honest. My first attempt to play Buffalo Castle DT&T has been irritating and quite off putting to someone who is new to the game (not to the genre however).

The module looks simple enough to navigate and I assumed I knew how to use it.  If a choice leads me to 10B or 19A then I turn to those entries in the book.  Imagine my surprise when I read the Adventure Introduction on page 4 and it tells me "If you open the box, go to 14B. That means turn to page 14 and read paragraph B."  Hmmmm.  That's not intuitive at all.  The page numbers do not coincide with the entry numbers, but its what the instructions say to do. 

I begin to play.  At the start there are 3 doors.  I decide to take the right door to 12A.  So, per the instructions, I turn to page 12 and read entry (8)A... Yeah... This doesn't seem right.  I'm sure the way to play is to turn to the entry number and not the page number.  Spoiling some of the book and thumbing through the different entries proves that my initial thoughts on how to play were correct.  The instructions are wrong.

So I'm a bit irritated but proceed to the 12A entry/passage and it says "Make your saving roll."  Wait. What?  What just happened? Whats going on?  Do i just make one up?  The DT&T rules state that if asked to make a saving roll it would be written something like L2SR on Str.  This tells me nothing and there is no context that i can use to infer what type of SR roll I should make.  Is the Wizard casting a spell at me? Is a monster attacking me? Is there some sort of trap?  I'm not sure if I am supposed to role for Dex, LK, Str etc. I also don't know what level of Saving Roll.

The Buffalo Castle module I have has Deluxe T&T updated edition on the front cover, but everything leads me to believe otherwise.  Not to be too harsh, but seriously... This module has been around for what? 25+ years? Why do the instructions tell me to use the page numbers instead of the entry/passage numbers?  Why is it asking me to make a saving roll and not giving me the information I need to do so and clearly not in the format the DT&T book said it would be in.

This is completely off putting to someone new to the game.  These are clear, obvious, basic issues that should have been addressed.  Issues that turn what should be an evening of fun into one of frustration.

The flying Buffalo website has no errata listed for this either. Does anyone know what i'm supposed to do for a saving roll?  I guess i could flip ahead and see if it gives me context after the fact, but i already spoiled a chunk of the book trying to clear up the confusion on the page numbers so i really don't want to spoil anymore than i have to.

[zanshin]

ok, some editing issues clearly.

Your initial presumption is right, go to the named paragraph, not the page and para where they differ.

If it just says 'make a save' that will mean a level one luck SR, but I agree it should be spelled out.

Buffalo castle is very old school. I advise you to try Sword for Hire as a great first level solo.

[mgtremaine]

Yikes... sorry to hear your frustrations with it. Your first instinct was correct as Zanshin said. I just wanted answer the why... The original Buffalo Castle did not have so many lead in pages so page 2 literally was the 2A -> 2E paragraphs, the instructions were written back then and clearly not edited with the dT&T release. If you ever see that again just ignore it Solo adventures are in 2 styles the 2A, 3B, 5E style and then the later numbers 1->whatever . The first style was easier to find the paragraphs because the page number was generally the same. (IMHO}

Anyway, good luck hope you have fun!

-Mijke

[Werrrdna]

Yes, as Zanshin says, it should be a luck roll but it's a bug that wasn't fixed. However, they do seem to have fixed it in the online version www.flyingbuffalo.com/bcintro.htm

[SilenceTheFallen]

I appreciate the help zanshin. I will give it another go this evening and use a level 1 luck SR.

Out of curiosity, can a source be cited for this rule? Is it listed in an earlier edition or another module? Or is it just something the community has generally agreed upon over the years?

I checked Flying Buffalos website but it looks as if Sword for Hire is no longer available. Hopefully they will make a Deluxe T&T reprint at some point. I'll keep an eye out for it on Ebay also.

I also have Deluxe Deathtrap Equalizer and Deluxe Naked Doom. Maybe the editing will be clearer in those and perhaps they will flow a bit smoother. If I have more issues with Buffalo Castle I might just give it a pass and move on to another module.

Regardless, thanks for clearing those things up!

[SilenceTheFallen]

Thanks for the explanation mgtremaine that clears it up a bit. And its always good to know the history of why things are the way they are.

Thanks for pointing that out Werrrdna.

I really do appreciate all the help and responses.

[Werrrdna]

No problem. You can find a bunch of solos in PDF form on DriveThrurpg. eBay is also great - I just won Dargon's Dungeon for £2.50.

[bigjackbrass]

Apr 23, 2019 14:59:35 GMT -5 SilenceTheFallen said:

I appreciate the help zanshin. I will give it another go this evening and use a level 1 luck SR.

Out of curiosity, can a source be cited for this rule? Is it listed in an earlier edition or another module? Or is it just something the community has generally agreed upon over the years?

This is the opening paragraph from section 1.8, Saving Rolls, in the fifth edition rules:

"From time to time, characters may be placed in such danger (by a trap, by combat, by magic, or by their own clumsiness) that only pure luck can
save them. This is where the Saving Roll (SR) comes in. All important characters in this game have a Luck rating - the higher the rating, the luckier the character. The saving roll needed is based on a character's Luck."

As others have suggested this appears to be a slightly sloppy editing update to the adventure. I don't think it's this way at all in Deluxe, but with previous editions the assumption was that SRs were made on Luck and the idea that you could use other attributes was something which had clearly developed after the initial release. So, if in doubt you can roll L1SR on LK. If you find that things seem too easy then try rolling at your character's level, or the level of the dungeon you're on at the time.

[SilenceTheFallen]

Cool. Thanks for looking that up bigjackbrass! Its nice to see that it was a standard rule and what edition it came from.

As Werrrdna linked to above in the online Buffalo Castle, that same section has been fleshed out to read "Make a first level saving roll on your Luck". Its just a shame this was not corrected in the print version.

Either way, it sounds like if a saving roll is asked for, but not specific, then its a L1SR to LK.

Thanks for the help and clarification everyone.