Spite Damage Questions

[mrhiggins]

Hi,

I am trying my best to understand spite damage, but some parts of the manual in this area are not very clear and there seems to be mistakes in the examples. I am sure the first example is incorrect as in the first example they roll 84 and 74 then is states the points of damage is 9?

Here is what I understand so far

• Spite Damage is damage that bypasses armour
  
• If general damage is greater than spite damage, the spite damage is a part of the general damage and is not added on to it. So in the case of 5 general damage and 1 spite, 1 spite damage is applied and 4 is left which is applied as normal against armour.

Is what I am saying above correct?

What I am not getting is for the case when general damage is less than spite damage. In this case is the damage only the spite damage? In the example in the manual of 2 points of general damage and 5 spite damage, it sounds like they split the damage so that 3 points of spite damage happen and 2 points of general happen?

Many Thanks

[apn]

Hi, welcome to the board!

I'm in the middle of something else on the game so thought it would be quicker to copy/paste the what it reads (pg76) against what it should read... looks like a typo to me.

[mahrundl]

Welcome, mrhiggins!

Spite works just as you have stated it. Spite comes directly off of CON; if total damage exceeds Spite, some or all of the additional damage can be prevented by armour.

And I agree with apn that the 9 should be 10, and that it's probably a typo (or someone was having a Bad Maths Day).

[apn]

It's too late to ask for my 'print the pdf off and bind into four smaller books' project that I'm into at the moment (book 4 completed in next few days when the bigger paper turns up) but is there an errata anywhere? I'll edit the PDF to fix the various bits. I know for sure the spell listings for Level 1 have Level 3 requirements listed at the top of the page for some reason, just wondered if there were others.

[houndle]

I don't recall seeing any official errata, I thought I spotted a few things when I was going through the book (which I don't immediately recall) but I'm never quite sure whether they are errors or "features"; like the fact that in the last example reproduced above, the "winners" of the combat round suffer more damage than the "losers".

[mrhiggins]

Jun 20, 2022 15:33:58 GMT -5 mahrundl said:

Welcome, mrhiggins!

Spite works just as you have stated it.

Thanks for confirming some of my understanding.

I am still not understanding the right way of handling spite damage when points of damage is less then spite damage. The manual and the second example are contradictory.

If spite damage is more than total
damage, simply count the spite damage

If spite damage is greater than total damage,
ignore total damage and simply count spite damage.

Example of Barely-enough Spite Damage: What
if the fight were closer? If Bragtongue's side rolled
82 points to Lindstrom's 84 (with everything else the
same), there would be only 2 points of regular
damage against the bad guys. However, the good
guys rolled 5 points of spite damage!
Brag and the grobrins still have to take all the
spite damage, distributing the points among them.
Two of those points are general damage, and Brag absorbs
them on his raggedy mail. The remaining 3 points are spite
damage that leaves a spatter of blood on the floor.

In the second example they are not ignoring the total damage and only counting spite damage they are splitting the spite damage into normal damage and applying the normal damage and then the spite damage. Which is the correct way for this case, do I only use the spite damage rolled or do you split the spite damage by taking off the normal damage like the example?

[nialldubh]

Personally I find the rule confusing...

If Group A does 85 Combat Damage (Hit Point Total (HPT)), and 5 spite.

and

Group B does 80 Combat Damage (Hit Point Total (HPT)), and 5 spite.


Now correct me if I getting this wrong???



Obviously Group A won Combat Turn/Round?

But Group A does 5 damage (Hits/regular: general damage) which is completely absorbed by Group B's armour. The spite is converted into regular hit/general damage and bounces off their armour...

But Group B (who lost the Combat Round) does 5 spite damage to Group A that penetrates any armour and causes them harm?



Personally I not think this is Right?!?

But, I keep rereading the thing to try and comprehend if I going mad? But do not believe so, I believe if you win a round (you lose your spite and if foe got armour: It absorbs damage, while...), it be better if you lost and do the spite damage to the foe (based on example above and technically win the round by losing)!!!

[mrhiggins]

I had come to a similar ideas as you nialldubh, and cannot think why they would do it like that.

It also confuses that the rules contradict the example.

[mahrundl]

Jun 21, 2022 1:03:11 GMT -5 mrhiggins said:

If spite damage is greater than total damage,
ignore total damage and simply count spite damage.

Example of Barely-enough Spite Damage: What
if the fight were closer? If Bragtongue's side rolled
82 points to Lindstrom's 84 (with everything else the
same), there would be only 2 points of regular
damage against the bad guys. However, the good
guys rolled 5 points of spite damage!
Brag and the grobrins still have to take all the
spite damage, distributing the points among them.
Two of those points are general damage, and Brag absorbs
them on his raggedy mail. The remaining 3 points are spite
damage that leaves a spatter of blood on the floor.

The example you've quoted there gets it wrong, mrhiggins.  Let's look at it another way:

Both sides will inflict however much Spite damage they generated.

On top of that, the winning side inflict <total amount that they won by> - <Spite that they generated> additional hits, which can be taken on armour if applicable.

Here's my quick attempt at correcting the quoted example:

If spite damage is greater than or equal to total damage,
ignore total damage and simply count spite damage.

Example of Barely-enough Spite Damage: What
if the fight were closer? If Bragtongue's side rolled
82 points to Lindstrom's 84 (with everything else the
same), there would be only 2 points of regular
damage against the bad guys. However, the good
guys rolled 5 points of spite damage!
Brag and the grobrins still have to take all the
spite damage, distributing the points among them.
Two None of those points are general damage, and Brag absorbs
so Brag can't absorb them on his raggedy mail. The remaining 3 All 5 points are spite
damage that comes directly off of CON and leaves a spatter of blood on the floor.

OK, Shakespeare it ain't, but hopefully that helps clarify matters.

[houndle]

In Houndleworld (this is definitely not by the book) Spite nets off and only the net amount counts against whoever scores less Spite.

I just got fed up with being Spited to death in solos, one painful point at a time.

[mrhiggins]

Thanks mahrundl for clarifying. I think that is how I would play it, but was very confused with how it is written. Thank you everyone for helping out.

[ProfGremlin]

I can see where some of the confusion arises. As I recall (faulty Int SRs and all), Spite was originally conceived as a way for the losing side to score hits on the the winners. It was a solution to the problem of evenly matched foes absorbing hits on their armour and dragging out combat. Spite represented those strikes in combat that managed to slip past armour and nick the opponent directly. So, yes, it was possible to lose the combat round but score more damage in spite than the winners won the combat by (as Houndle so eloquently points out above). T&T has never been concerned with game balance.

dT&T incorporates an evolution of the Spite rule to apply it to both sides. Both sides roll, count up total damage and note which dies came up sixes to trigger Spite damage. I just pull the sixes to the side. Compare totals to figure out the winner of the round. Is the number of sixes, aka Spite, more or less than the total they won the combat round by? If more, ignore total won by and simply apply Spite damage directly to Con of the losing side. Distribute said Spite amongst recipients, as needed. If less, use the total they won by and apply to opponents, distribute as needed and apply armour absorption for regular damage.

Let's not forget the losers of the round, they get to apply Spite damage directly to Con of the winning side. Distribute said Spite amongst recipients, as needed. Just because they lost the round doesn't mean they're incompetent! They survived getting this far, after all.

This is how I run combat. If I'm a little off from the official rules, well, hey, isn't that the heart of T&T? Also, I haven't had coffee yet this morning. [_]D I'm surprised the hamster in the wheel upstairs hasn't gone on strike just yet.

[apn]

We've been running:

6 explodes, add another die per 6 rolled to your HPT

1 'implodes' subtract another die per 1 rolled to your HPT

if you have more 'explodes' you roll the difference between the implodes (1s) and explodes (6s) and add to your HPT

if you have more 'implodes' you roll the difference between the explodes (6s) and implodes (1s) and subtract from your HPT

Most of the time the explodes and implodes are equal so no extra dice are rolled. Every now and again a stack of 6s or 1s are rolled and it swings combat around when otherwise it would be predictable with the side rolling most dice generally scoring more spite and chipping away at the lesser dice side.

There are other ways of doing it like Spite activates special effects and it may be easier/faster to come up with a way that suits you rather than mangle your head around the confusing way its written in the book.

Don't get me started on missile combat!

[houndle]

Another little thought from the bizarre alternate reality that is Houndleworld:

Scoring Spite on a 6 is something of a double whammy. The side with most 6s is likely to have a decent score anyway. Why not trigger Spite on a 1 instead? 

[apn]

That kind of makes sense actually with the rules as written. Sure the side scoring all the 6s whacks the other guy more/harder/painfully but the other side with the lousy 1s all over the shop score sneaky hits instead of the roll 1s equals low HPT and we suck.

Yes, to the rules as written I think that is a better idea houndle

I'd toss you a scooby snack if I knew what one was.