quoghmyre
7th Level Troll
The Summer Troll
Posts: 1,048
|
Post by quoghmyre on Mar 29, 2023 21:10:56 GMT -5
Just to say that if anyone wants a we transfer of the latest Trollszines please pm me with your email address. Singularly unimpressed. Sadly zanshin , it appears that in order to avoid the wrath of WS, all reference to T&T and specific features of the rules must be removed from available material on DriveThru. For specific small products removing/editing these references isn't too challenging a task, though it is laborious in the extreme . I think the only way to keep all editions of Trollszine available on DriveThru will be to talk directly to Ed Bryan at WS and try to get some sort of special dispensation for a Fanzine of such awesome quality . The TavernMasters would, of course, be happy to host on our little bit of DTRPG . Had a thought that we could do a standard email begging for a Trollszine exemption and then we could all send it to Ed. This would either demonstrate the strength of feeling and get them to do so, or it might fill this chap's inbox and completely pi$$ him off Do you and quoghmyre have other plans afoot? My current plan is to keep them available HereThe best option is that everyone downloads these files and makes them available to people who want them, For the community, by the community. Also: We had written permission from Rick and FBI to create TrollsZine and he read the issues (and commented on) many of them. I think he was proud of what we had done.
|
|
|
Post by alkazar on Mar 30, 2023 2:16:19 GMT -5
I wouldn't think that WS would be interested in going after any fan made products being offered for free. I'm of the opinion that they'd only be interested in removing any non WS T&T products that people are charging money for, as that would be considered competition and a violation of their trademarks (which they are legally required to defend.) If DTRPG is targeting free fan made stuff then it might be them over reaching on a request by WS. TrollsZine is a free and open rpg electronic fanzine that is not in direct competition with nor a threat to WS and our use of WS trademarked terms may constitute fair use. My personal opinion is we shouldn't worry about the back issues and leave them up just as they are for historical purposes unless, of course, DTRPG or WS says something about them. Going forward though, perhaps we should scale back our use of any WS trademarked or copyrighted terminology to just a few mentions per issue and use M!M! in place of T&T whenever we can.
|
|
|
Post by nialldubh on Mar 30, 2023 6:49:46 GMT -5
Problem with that Alkazar is this debate was started because of Ferverax and the Valley of Gleam. Which Andrew is giving away for free. andrewwalter.itch.io/ferverax-a-tt-adventureOf course you might be right, perhaps it is an error and was not intended for Free stuff?
|
|
darrght
4th Level Troll
Wow, I'm a 4th Level Troll!
Posts: 440
|
Post by darrght on Mar 30, 2023 7:21:07 GMT -5
"The Skyship of Lord Orink Note: Thank you for buying this solitaire adventure from Tavernmaster Games.
Please take a look at our other Tunnels & Trolls products at DriveThru RPG.
Regards
The Tavernmaster Crew"[Underline mine] Viva la Trollresistance! Well spotted mosker . I'm on the editing trail as soon as I've posted here
|
|
|
Post by alkazar on Mar 30, 2023 12:51:55 GMT -5
Problem with that Alkazar is this debate was started because of Ferverax and the Valley of Gleam. Which Andrew is giving away for free. andrewwalter.itch.io/ferverax-a-tt-adventureOf course you might be right, perhaps it is an error and was not intended for Free stuff? It's a "name your price" product and not necessarily free. It still implies the possible exchange of currency for goods, albeit at the discretion of the customer.
|
|
|
Post by nialldubh on Mar 30, 2023 13:53:46 GMT -5
Hmm, was it, I was not sure as I could not locate it on Drivethru. Still he giving it away free in previous link.
|
|
sscrompton
4th Level Troll
One of the members of the Fellowship of the Troll. Worked on dT&T with Ken, Liz, Bear & Rick.
Posts: 401
|
Post by sscrompton on Mar 30, 2023 22:31:30 GMT -5
My advice to anyone that buys any pdf products from any source is to always download it and put it on your own physical storage space. There are a 1000 rasons why some day something you've being storing "on the cloud" when that cloud might disipate, the hosting company goes out of business, the publisher takes down their content or the content is banned because it is no longer considered socially acceptable. If you have it in your possession then it can't be taken away from you.
And to mis-quote Alec Baldwin from the "Glengary GlenRoss" film: "A. B. D." "A - Always. B - Be. D - Downloading." "Always be downloading..."
In regards to contracts - if any contract is non-transferable then either party can declare that the contract does not transfer without a new agreement...
Anyone is welcome to contact me if they are interested in joining the Monsters! Monsters! Network. We will concider your acceptance on a case by case basis. We are looking for quality over quantity. Here is my e-mail: trollhallapresssteve@gmail.com
|
|
|
Post by Aramis of Erak on Mar 31, 2023 1:06:04 GMT -5
I mean - the adventure is and always will be free/PWYW so I'm not even really sure how that modifies things. [/div][/quote] IANAL - but I've done many deep dives into IP law as a musician.It's utterly irrelevant in trademark terms that it was PWYW. You used their trademark without their permission; it's up to you to prove you had a license from FB as an affirmative defense. If you did, they're bound to the terms thereof for the duration thereof. Note also, a Handshake deal from Rick is worth the paper it is written upon... no paper, no audio recording, no digital documents, then no proof. The fan-work defense isn't viable without an explicit fan license (open or individual). That Flying Buffalo was very friendly to the WebRing sites for years isn't a license. Not being privy to what exact terms you had with Flying Buffalo (if any), if WS C&D's it on DTRPG, taking it down from Itch.io is a good defensive move to avoid damages if they sue. And it goes a long way to avoiding them suing. (DMCA) Note that Fan-work has no legal standing as fair use; it often violates both copyright and trademark. Examples include Paramount v Anaxar Productions, Paramount v ST Continues, etc. Paramount does have a fan film and fan game policy... it utterly forbids ANY monetization. Anaxar Productions settled, terms not public, but Anaxar has stated they were given permission to do a shortened version from what was planned. Derivative works belong to the creator of the derivative, but cannot be shared without permission of the owner of the Original. In the 1990's, Palladium Books won a good number of suits versus local BBS's where players were running various Palladium games. (Sysop News had a lot of coverage.) Most of these are due to unique class names being trademarked AND copyright protected.
|
|
|
Post by andreww on Apr 4, 2023 2:19:04 GMT -5
Hmmm. Thanks for the writeup. Well I suppose I'll take it down then. I suppose all the above still applies if it was EXPLICITLY free as opposed to PWYW? (I think there's a toggle for that). I would be amazed if I get sued over this tiny thing that I've probably made enough to buy three pints of bitter with but I don't want to get litigation-nuked from over the pond. If anyone would like a copy of this material please DM me and they can see a free copy of this fan made, eyes-only adventure for The World's Most Popular Troll Based Adventure Simulation Experience which I will be sharing as a friend looking for feedback.
EDIT: I've removed it from public availability.
|
|
|
Post by nialldubh on Apr 4, 2023 6:16:23 GMT -5
Sad about these events disturbing peoples lives who just want to create a fun T&T adventure/solo...
|
|
oldskolgmr
2nd Level Troll
Hey, I'm a 2nd level Troll now! Arrow? Ah, it's a fashion statement!
Posts: 53
|
Post by oldskolgmr on Apr 4, 2023 13:41:33 GMT -5
I shake my fist at you Webbed Spheres!!
|
|
apn
5th Level Troll
Posts: 578
|
Post by apn on Apr 4, 2023 14:01:05 GMT -5
With the mention of Corporate lawyers vs little guys doing stuff free for the love of it, how does that translate with regards forums. Like, this one? I don't know much about the Palladiumâ„¢ lawsuits going after bulletin boards but it might be an idea to store/backup the forum to an offline form just in case the worst happens and a C&D is sent to Proboards...
I realise that is a crazy/outlandish notion but then I thought someone would have to be nuts to C&D (or equivalent) Free Products that support a game you just bought and have done absolutely nothing yourself in terms of supporting, promoting or updating...
|
|
jeffb
2nd Level Troll
Posts: 66
|
Post by jeffb on Apr 4, 2023 16:53:39 GMT -5
I shake my fist at you Webbed Spheres!! Me too. With middle finger extended.
|
|
|
Post by ProfGremlin on Apr 4, 2023 19:04:08 GMT -5
... but it might be an idea to store/backup the forum to an offline form... I don't see any feature in the admin settings that would allow for a "Download Your Data" kind of backup. It's possible Vin Ahrr Vin may have access to more features than either I or Mahrundl. In the meantime, here's what I've been doing for awhile: any post I make that is a creature, magic item or other interesting nugget that I could weave into my own setting, I save into an offline workbook. On the Mac I use Growly Notes. It's a great tool, much like OneNote in function but since OneNote isn't available on the Mac (Maybe in an O365 subscription but I'm not paying for a subscription when I have equivalent tools for free) Growly Notes does just fine. I started using it when it was a paid app (it's now free) and I've emailed with the developer. He's quite responsive and helped me understand a quirk I was running into. Whatever tool you choose to use, keeping things available and organized means that whatever you've posted is yours regardless of what happens to the forum.
|
|
apn
5th Level Troll
Posts: 578
|
Post by apn on Apr 4, 2023 23:15:05 GMT -5
In terms of backing up the forum using a Third Party program it seems that's a bad idea. In the past I used WinHTTrack to download the forum we played our play by post on and my own forum as a routine backup. Glad I did as it saved the posts from 2009/2010 that I still refer to today in the other PbP I run (been going since October '09 so this is our 14th year, far longer than any face to face campaign I ever ran).
I think Proboards will block that - I've tried to run it a couple of times and it stops near on immediately. Won't try it again as it may ban me for 'suspect behaviour' or some such...
|
|