Initial questions

[korgoth]

Hey guys. I am new around here and have some basic questions about T&T. I downloaded the free rules PDF from Drivethru. I like several of the features, especially the use of the d6 for everything.

First, what kind of games do you use it for? The basic implied world seems a bit light-hearted (though deadly; I assume it's roughly the same implied world as in Grimtooth's Traps?). Do people explore more serious milieus with the game, or is it mostly aimed at "dungeons & slapsticks" kind of stuff?

Second, why not always play a dwarf? Their stat bonuses are in the stratosphere! Now I know the Ref can always say "Well, yeah but for some vague reason everybody craps on dwarves at every opportunity"... but I mean is there an actual non-lame reason why everybody wouldn't always play a dwarf? Is CHR really that important?

[Fenris]

korgoth said:

First, what kind of games do you use it for? The basic implied world seems a bit light-hearted (though deadly; I assume it's roughly the same implied world as in Grimtooth's Traps?). Do people explore more serious milieus with the game, or is it mostly aimed at "dungeons & slapsticks" kind of stuff?

Since everyone here is gonna have an opinion on this one, and since my opinion seems to differ from the average, I'm going to use this opportunity to say that, yes, some people do play T&T very seriously... sometimes even straight-up grim and gritty.

I think a lot of people, and I'm referring to generally all gamers (not just T&T'ers) mentally connect more complex rules with more serious gameplay, and more simple rules with more lighthearted gameplay, but the rules are really just the vehicle that runs the game; the same Playstation can play Lego Star Wars or Grand Theft Auto. It's just a matter of if you want to spend your time and brainpower working through complex rules or actually playing a game.

That said, it seems like the greater number of players want to play T&T as a "beer-and-pretzels" game, and most of the additional material for the game seems to lean in this direction: not necessarily always overtly silly, but generally fairly straightforward. Characters enter the castle, kill some monsters, defeat some traps, steal some treasure, and high-tail it out with a minimum of fuss. I'd say, in my experience, that this is the "default" method of play; individual GMs will vary from Very Serious to Very Silly, and the T&T "engine" is more than capable of handling either extreme.

[horsa]

From a purely mechanistic standpoint there is little reason to choose a Kindred other than Dwarf. However most T&T players aproach the game for things other han min-maxing the rules mechanics. I have one player who always plays humans, no matter what the game setting or genre, he only wants to play humans. Another local player is famous for showing up with the "freak of the week". Each week he has a character more bizarre and outlandish than the previous one, he then tires of them and it's on to the next.

Welcome to T&T. I'm sure a browse through the threads here will show you some of the diversity in play styles and opinions about the game.

[gamepunk26]

T&T is my main RPG rules set. I use it for an increasingly dark horor-fantasy campaign. It is great for pick up games though. The simplicity of the rules allows people to get playing quickly and in a crunch, an imaginative DM can run an improvised adventure.

Do not let the simplicty fool you. I have played many RPGs in my life and I own many rules sets. Simple is good. I will never go back to a complex ruleset. Any world can be adapted into T&T. This requires more work on the side of the GM. D&D3 is easy to play and run. You just have to know the rules and follow the "approved" method of play. It is hard to get away from and when there are so many rules, you tend to get players that argue with the GM over minute things. T&Ts universal resolution using the saving roll, covers everything. No tedious Feats to track. You want to do a circular strike with your axe jump the chasm, disarm the treap or identify that odd colored berry before you eat it, tell your GM. He'll tell you what to roll against, done.

T&T is awesome. ;D

[Fenris]

You rock, Gamepunk.

I just gave you an Exalt for that last post because, well, I don't know why exactly. There was just so much love for the game and sincerity in your post, and it was just so well said... I don't know.... I just feel like you spoke for me as well as for yourself.

Excellent post, Gamepunk! Thanks.

[gamepunk26]

WOOT!

[fizzwizz]

Welcome Korgoth.

I understand where you are coming from with concerns like the lack of balance between kindreds. What I have found is that T&T is a state of mind. Once you've "got" the free, weird and wondrous attitude behind it, other games just seem restrictive and the rules redundant. Don't get me wrong, probably my favourite game after T&T is Rolemaster - very much at the opposite end of the complexity spectrum. But there is nothing like a free-flowing game of T&T where everyone is on the same wavelength.

That everyone does need to be on the same page in terms of playing to the game's strengths, rather than min-maxing, could certainly be considered a weakness. But it also should be said that the group-centric combat rules allow the weaker combatants to chip in without being overshadowed by the stronger ones. And in and out of combat, the rules encourage overcoming problems with the creative use of SRs.

Anyway, there is no school like the Old School, and I hope you have a lot of fun with the game...

Fizzwizz

[order99]

Hi Korgoth!

As far as the types of Game you can run-well, all our games tend to be rather Gonzo, but that's only because most of my Players are borderline INSANE... Don't let the lighthearted tone fool you, T&T can go nearly anywhere in Tone-and the Rules can do nearly any Genre with a minimum of teaking, unlike some Uber-complex Rulesets I could name..

Simple Rules or not, you can do a LOT with them. The big Secret that makes it Work is the Saving Roll-any Stunt or Save in the world can be accomplished simply by finding out A ) what Ability it fall under and B ) how Tough it should be, SR1, SR 2 etc.

If you purchased the PDF from Drive-Thru it's probably the 7th Edition. Most Solo Modules may need some minor adjustments as the Solo baseline tends to be 5th-luckily we have Forums for each. Also, you may notice a Mercenaries, Spies & Private Eyes Forum, that's a glorious T&T variant system keyed to Modern Adventure Gaming...

I recommend the following Sites-FBI, founding T&T company: www.flyingbuffalo.com

and "that company", with enough T&T products to utterly destroy your wallet:
http//geocities.com/hobbit_lands/index.html

Hope you like it here.

[mahrundl]

Welcome Korgoth!

T & T is good for light-hearted games - as becomes fairly obvious when you look at some of the spell names - but is perfectly capable of being used for more serious stuff, including, as Fenris said, grim and gritty adventures. My games are usually somewhat light-hearted for the most part, but there are some definitely 'horrific' moments in places.

Dwarven attribute bonuses are indeed very good. But what is said dwarf's chance of getting out of a 10' deep pit without assistance? There are many situations where being short and solid are disadvantageous. And there are cultural factors - if the world is mostly filled with humans, as many seem to be, non-humans could easily be treated as second-class citizens. Your dwarf may be an impressive speciman, but a detachment of the town guard will still be able to overcome him and throw him into the lockup if they need to. Really, whether the attribute multipliers are unbalancing is largely a matter of how your game is run.

And anyway, some of us don't like the way that the beards itch all of the time.

[zanshin]

Welcome Korgoth, hope you enjoy your stay here

Others of us have teased away at the uberness of Dwarves, and also elves.

T&T is a very simple, elegant and adaptable system. have a look at some of the threads in the races section to find some of the solutions others have come up with. I suggested some ideas in 'Humans, why have them'

[apeloverage]

I made up some attribute multipliers which are balanced (ie if you pick your race before you roll attributes, you'd expect to get the same total as a human, except for flying creatures who have less), for Narnia-style talking animals and for Ancient Greek non-humans. It should be pretty easy to do the same for the standard Kindreds (and for any others).

cats: STR x 1/2 LK x 4/3 CON x 1/2 CHR x 4/3 SPD x 4/3

dogs: INT x 2/3 CHR x 4/3

mice: STR x 1/2 CON x 2/3 DEX x 4/3 SPD x 3/2

owls: STR x 2/3 DEX x 1/2 INT x 3/2 flight.

bears: STR x 3/2 CON x 3/2 DEX x 1/2 SPD x 1/2

foxes: STR x 1/2 INT x 4/3 LK x 4/3 CON x 1/2 DEX x 2/3 CHR x 4/3 SPD x 4/3

fauns: STR and INT /2 , CON x 2/3 , LK, CHR and SPD x 4/3

dryads: STR and CON /2 , LK, CHR and WIZ x 4/3

centaurs: CON and SPD x 4/3 , DEX and WIZ x 2/3

If you're not using WIZ, dryads' STR and CON is x 2/3 and centaurs' SPD is x1.

[order99]

Just in passing-your Mice have a higher CON than your Cats and actually look evenly matched in a fight, two Mice could take one Cat decisively to the cleaners...those stats wouldn't be for the Rats from NIMH, perchance? ;D

[lionrampant]

One important thing to note in regards to dwarves, specifically, is that they have a modifier that nerfs their LUCK attribute. Since many saving throws to not die from the trap you accidentally set off rely on LUCK, this tends to kill many dwarves that couldn't be stopped by 100 orcs in face-to-face combat. At least, that has been my experience, especially in the solitaire adventures, which use LUCK all the time as the generic saving throw stat, and is therefore the one I use in my games, since I got used to doing it that way.

If you want to be really unbalancing, just play a dragon. It's fun!!

[horsa]

I have just started a PBEM T&T game on the Trollcavern yahoo group. Feel free to join and watch or play. We are still doing character creation and just getting started.

[korgoth]

Thanks for the responses, guys. I managed to track down a print copy of T&T 5.5 (not easy in my neck of the woods, it turns out). I am impressed so far. I like a lot of the little rules in the back, such as TARO for humans, burning armor, dodges and spite damage. Those seem to deal with a number of concerns I had with the rules at the outset.

A follow-up question: why are monsters so powerful? An orc is suggested to have an MR of 40, which is 5d + 20 in combat; a lowly goblin with an MR of 30 has 4d + 15. Both of these seem more powerful than a 1st level human. Is that intentional? I would have thought that an orc would be about on par with a man, and a goblin somewhat lesser.