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Post by skathros on May 3, 2006 15:48:25 GMT -5
Am i the only one who feels FBI should be doing more to promote the game? I can see T&T has a small but loyal fanbase, but souldn't effort be made to augment the number of fans? Is it the common thinking that T&T simply wouldnt "catch on"? Someone here at the 'Bridge pointed to a thread on the Mongoose boards, and almost all of the replies on that thread seemed favorable towards the game.
Should we, the fans of the game, be doing more to get the game out in the public (gaming public, that is) eye? C&C, another game i love, was mostly driven by it's fans at the begining, as was Savage Worlds. In both cases though, there was a sort of dynamic between the game's creator(s) and the initial fan base.
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Hogscape
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
It's not the years, it's the mileage.
Posts: 2,126
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Post by Hogscape on May 3, 2006 20:49:47 GMT -5
I don't get a sense of any dynamic between the game's creator and the general public - although there is a 'secret' club that can commune with the Trollgod. From what I hear, and I could be wrong, I get the impression that with the Trollgod, it's either "My way or the highway".
I think if FBI thought there was a dollar in promoting the game they would. I'd like to see more people playing T&T (t'was me that started the Mongoose thread) but we, the players, can't really do that on our own...
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Post by skathros on May 4, 2006 14:44:31 GMT -5
And where are those new support materials and adventures going to come from? From us fans, that's who.. True, khaydhaik! I remember in the early days of both C&C and Savage Worlds, the fans were submitting things like mad. Every week saw new house rules, add-ons, homebrews. These were usually hosted on the games site. This, in turn accomplished two very benificial things. First of all, it game the fans a sense of community. As if they were taking a part in shaping the future of the game. This sense of comunity not only included the fans of the game, but the games creator and fans. The second thing this accomplished is it showed the game as a living game. Or even free adventures, or solos on the web. Why not put out a free intro mod for 7E? The majority of gaming companies that come out with a new game will offer a intro mod. A nice web site dedicated to T&T wuoldn't be a half bad idea. I guess i'm just rambling now ;D It really simply comes down to the fact that i truely believe T&T is a wonderful system, yet from my POV, it kinda looks like there's no steam behind the game  |
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Post by skathros on May 8, 2006 15:50:32 GMT -5
Just something i've been wond'rin...who'll support 7E? Is FBI supporting 7E? Is FDP supporting 7E? It seems like the tin was ushered out the door and...that's it. Intro mod? Errata? Anything?
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Hogscape
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
It's not the years, it's the mileage.
Posts: 2,126
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Post by Hogscape on May 9, 2006 2:33:17 GMT -5
Support? I think we've seen all the support we're going to get.
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Post by ironfang on May 9, 2006 11:44:52 GMT -5
It is my belief that the "lack of support" from FBI for 5.5 is directly related to two obvious issues - lack of cash and a "protect the copyright" position.
I urge everyone to buy FBI products from either Rick directly, or from your FLGS. That said, I find I agree with "that guy" and "that company"...
If they won't support the game then it falls to the fan base to do so, and f#$% their copyright. My frustrations are also directed at would-be developers... "I don't want to give up my rights to characters and settings I developed over the years." Sorry pal, but what you are saying is "Show me the money." How hard is it to submit a dungeon to FBI for publication with this stipulation?
The characters and settings are copyrighted by Gimor Ironfang. The mechanics, logos and etc for the Tunnels & Trolls system are copyrighted by FBI. Neither infringes upon the other. Enjoy the game.
Things I would love to see from Flying Buffalo...
1. A bound compilation of the Sorcerer's Apprentice magazines
2. Reprintings of all the solos and GM adventures. I can get it into my local shops if it were available.
3. Updated solos - you already own it. Rick - if you are listening, I'd do one for FREE.
4. An OPEN GAMING LICENSE for T&T. Oh look! TSR is healthier than in a very long time. Face it, this works.
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Post by ironfang on May 11, 2006 14:51:47 GMT -5
I stand by my "Show me the money." You say "Not true." but later in the same post you say "They (TSR/Hasbro) can give the stuff away." By no means am I saying/implying "I wanna be rich" but rather "I want my piece."
HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING
If a proposed adventure is turned down for production by FBI because I, the creator, want to retain creative copyright of the setting and characters, and that's the ONLY reason it gets turned down -- then FBI is making a poor business decision (the "protect the copyright" entrenchment). Now, if FBI agrees to allow me to keep creative control, but I ask for (more) money -- then I'm the one making the poor decision. Of course, business contracts fall through for many reasons every day, and I am not privy to any of the contractual discussions between Khaydhaik and FBI, but obvious is obvious here.
As to the OGL - Hasbro is not pouring cash into TSR; it's the other way around. The TSR line is a cash-cow, made fatter through the OGL. Face it. The more support there is for a game, the more it sells. Big company. Small company. No difference. Even true for FBI. When T&T was supported, it sold. When Nuclear War is supported and in print - it sells.
Copyright is an intersting set of laws when one considers RPGs. As holder of a copyright, I have EXCLUSIVE rights to make derivative work. This means that as holder of the copyright to the (hypothetical) RPG Iron & Fang, I am the only one who can create derivative works using I&F rules - supplements, solos, modules, etc.
*** BUT ***
I sold you the game rulebook and in order for you to use it as I intended, you have to create derivative work. Except copyright law prohibits this. But I have given tacit approval for you to do this. But if you do so and try to share your stuff, I'm going to try to stop you. But in order to play the game as intended, you have to share your ideas with other players... Viscious circle, neh? Wakarimsu-ka?
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Post by skathros on May 11, 2006 14:54:36 GMT -5
Though I would absolutely love an Open Gaming License for T&T, I'm not gonna hold my breath for it. Meny small gaming companies are doing something similar to WotC's OGL. Guardians of Order, West End Games, FUZION as well, i believe. Then there's FUDGE...but FUDGE is a special case. |
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Post by skathros on May 11, 2006 15:58:57 GMT -5
I do think it's a shame, though. They've given my 7E...but nothing more? As much as i love the game, i think there should be some support, even minimal support. I'll take some freebie PDF, solo reprints for 7E, new rsolo's and adventures for me to dump some $ on...anything!
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Post by skathros on May 11, 2006 15:59:49 GMT -5
Quick question..on who does the burden fall to support 7E? FBI or FDP?
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Post by ironfang on May 11, 2006 16:01:44 GMT -5
It's those people that are not actively working on a game for T&T for which it's about the money. Ouch! I seem to have struck a nerve, so apologies are extended if necessary. Doesn't change my opinion a whit Oh. Don't assume. I am, in fact, actively working on a couple T&T things. and it's still about the money. Yours. Mine. Rick's. Ken's. The consumers. The Champions. |
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Post by ironfang on May 11, 2006 16:05:59 GMT -5
Quick question..on who does the burden fall to support 7E? FBI or FDP? IMLTHO... FBI should support 5.5 and 7.0 FDP should be able to support 7.0 (if their lawyer got them anything more than a crappy license from FBI) Neither of them should give grief to Boozer, "that guy", Khaydhaik or any other poor troll who supports T&T in either version if they themselves are unwilling/unable to do so! |
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Post by ironfang on May 11, 2006 16:07:23 GMT -5
being opinionated is not the same as being wrong
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order99
7th Level Troll
Coffee-fueled Carrion That Walks Like a Man
Posts: 1,028
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Post by order99 on May 11, 2006 20:18:32 GMT -5
On a related note-
Anyone know if FBI or FDP would be willing to devote a smidgen of webspace for fan-developed freebies? Adventures, monsters, mods...you know, the same stuff we share here for free. I for one wouldn't mind sharing the contents of my feeble brain with new purchasers for just the warm glow-although most of my stuff is geared towards MS&PE(which is still sluggishly in print).
If that's a no-go with the publishers, a simple Links button(subtitled FREE STUFF!) to several willing sites(including this one) would accomplish the same effect in even less space.
This would still place the load of support directly on the fans, but at least the fresh blood would have easy access...
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order99
7th Level Troll
Coffee-fueled Carrion That Walks Like a Man
Posts: 1,028
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Post by order99 on May 12, 2006 21:06:14 GMT -5
OOOooooo, Link Heaven. Can't believe I missed it.
Thanks!
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