machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Jan 22, 2007 23:26:41 GMT -5
And that's exactly what I mean. Thankfully folks like Outlaw are publishing and printing things, and that there are site's like Hobgoblin's Tavern and many others.
Hell, the least they could do...the least is to publish the game and keep it in print. There wasn't even that for quite some time. I won't hold my breath for really anything at all more from FD (maybe that supposed no-frills edition of the 7th rulebook) and I won't hold my breath for really anything at all from Flying Buffalo, not even a cleaned-up, more organized, more fluid 8th edition. Eh.
I don't mean to be so d**n negative, but honestly, what other conclusions can I draw from the facts as they are?....
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Post by mahrundl on Jan 23, 2007 8:39:49 GMT -5
Cost is also a factor, Machfront. Neither Ken nor Flying Buffalo had the money to put up for the printing of 7th edition for a long time. It was only Fiery Dragon's financing that caused it to go ahead in the end. 8th edition, and any official 7th edition items, are likely to come either from fans directly (such as Boozer's wonderful 'Goblin Crag' adventure), or from fans prodding Ken to write stuff. Some of 7th edition was contributed by fans - there were a large number of spells submitted (and several used), with the remainder being considered for the proposed 7th edition grimoire. All of the 7th edition combat examples were done by fans, as were the updated equipment lists. People on this forum were among those fans - Khaydhaik and Ironfang, to name but two. It would be great if we could get a continuous flow of new official T&T stuff. Heck, I'd love to see what some of the T&T 'old guard' have stashed away from when they were running their games in the 70s. But they all have lives outside of T&T, and it's not necessarily fair to ask them to spend the time and energy to do what we'd like. Nonetheless, I think that maybe I will ask Ken if there are any old dungeons floating around in his cupboards from way back when...
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Jan 23, 2007 10:09:37 GMT -5
Oh, I don't want the man to put his real life on hold or do what "I" want or whatever, goodness knows. But...I don't know...just a little bit of clarity to the whole thing....a bit of..well I don't know. I just wish that it was more regular (the releases). Again, I don't mean to be rude, but it's almost...I say almost...a case of 'S*** or get off the pot'. If others can and will do it and he allows it, then great! Though I would never want to happen to T&T as what happened with D&D. Never. That's the other extreme. Staying true to his vision and being lazy and cynical may have actually saved T&T from a terrible fate of munchkin-ism or what-have-you. But, can't we just have a happy medium? I wish he would see just how strong and open-armed the T&T fan base was and still is, even more so now that ever it seems, and cater to that. I think he would stand to make a great deal of money if he took a risk and published a new and cleaned-up rulebook (no matter the version) and some more official support products and really advertised. He might be surprised at the positive and financial (which I think would also be positive) reaction. It seems, to me anyway in my totally non-expert opinion, that games of this sort are enjoying a bit of a resurgence. It's the right time. Who knows? Maybe FD thought of that and were testing the waters with the 30th Anniversery tin. But I will say that I am so very thankful of the community and their support and their contributions. There's a lot of really great third party stuff out there! I love it. I just wish that the well spring from which it flows would give a bit more too....
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Post by lionrampant on Jan 23, 2007 10:13:57 GMT -5
This might not be the right post for this, but earlier this month FD made available the 7th edition rules, as well as most other things from the box, available as a PDF purchase for $10 on drivethrurpg.com. Not sure if any other PDF vendors are carrying it as well. That is a pretty low price point, so if that does well for them it might encourage them and/or FBI to try some other PDF products.
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Post by mahrundl on Jan 23, 2007 14:35:17 GMT -5
I understand, Machfront, really I do. And actually I agree with you, by and large.
While my influence with the Trollgod is not especially great, I think that I shall again try encouraging him to keep moving with new things.
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khaydhaik
4th Level Troll
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Posts: 412
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Post by khaydhaik on Jan 24, 2007 3:34:38 GMT -5
You know, Ken has written articles for "that company" magazines. Does that count as "official"? If material is written by the creator of the game, should it be considered any less official just because it's published by "that company" instead of FD or FBI? If the creator of the game is going to "that company" to get T&T material published, I think that says a lot about where we can expect to get continued support for the game, whether you want to call it "official" or not.
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Jan 24, 2007 9:09:45 GMT -5
Well, I simply think that the best time for official adventures and other support is very soon after the release of the game itself or a new edition of a game. Kind of a "strike while the iron's hot" kind of thing I suppose.
As far as what's "official"....that a good point. If it Ken's and it's published elsewhere one could argue either way. If it's not written by Ken and in fact written by someone none of us have ever heard of, but it's published by Flying Buffalo I might think it's "official", but one could argue not. Then again, if it's published by FB or FD I would hope that Ken gave it the go-ahead. I dunno. This kind of argument could indeed go around in circles. I certainly don't have a good answer.....
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khaydhaik
4th Level Troll
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Posts: 412
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Post by khaydhaik on Jan 25, 2007 0:46:27 GMT -5
The point I'm trying to make is that there is support for the game out there. But if you aren't willing to get your support from what you consider "unofficial" sources, then you might get very little support indeed.
There are currently some very brilliant minds at work supporting the game. Ken is cooperating with and encouraging the third-party T&T community. He gives rewards on his Trollhalla site to members that submit articles to "that company", and to members that buy materials from "that company" or Hobgoblin's Tavern. If Ken approves of these sources of T&T material, why shouldn't that be good enough for the rest of us? Do we really need to get hung up on the "official" and "unofficial" labels?
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Jan 25, 2007 10:06:59 GMT -5
Oh, no. I didn't even mean that un-official wasn't "good enough". I don't mind. I was only saying that I wished that there was more from his corner, that's all. But what you said in the very last comment....see...I didn't know any of that. That's wonderful. I hope there's even more support and more visible support. I still wish he'd throw in to some more advertising, but what the hey. Now, see, you went and made me look like a cranky old bastard.
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dalton
4th Level Troll
Posts: 282
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Post by dalton on Jan 25, 2007 10:53:06 GMT -5
Well,
From the unofficial corner, I am currently working on a Tunnels and Trolls Wiki. I am working on a series of technical issues (such as the load balancing on the two servers and a bad cisco router) but otherwise I am about a month away from completing it.
It will also host my shard materials so you will have a wide variety of stuff to look at for ideas if nothing else for example
----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oarlocks. "... They were bred for their brute strength, for tasks which involved no thinking but repetitive actions. Their endurance was what earned them their fame aboard sea and airships alike... living engines capable of constant labour for extended periods. We found them work on our sea going vessels, manning long oars and moving our warships and wealthy freighters faster than wind. Their rough hands cranked the dwarven airships through the skies. The unthinking loyalty to whomever they were assigned. Only magic could fuse their bloodlines into what they are; the Orckish posture and strength, combined with the heavy simians found in the high jungles. Hairless and sickly grey, they do not appear beautiful to the unimaginable. But many a merchant would fall down and praise their strength for the speed in which they propel the fleets. The symmetrical heaving and pushing, rhymic and never failing. They need little and rely on rough unrefined foods that can be grazed anywhere. Their eyes amber and reptilian, their jaws square and hard. Thick bones mark their skeletons, between where vast musculature lets it be seen beneath the surface of their mottled skin. They weight twice what a man does, but can lift 3 times their own mass. Occasionally they feud amongst themselves, but it is never more than establishing pecking order at the trough. A couple of rough shoves and scowls... no Oarlock blood has ever been spilled by another. We've tried to train them for war, but they seem unable to identify what fighting is. It has been supposed that they have such slight needs that there is never a reason good enought for them... or that they just don't comprehend violence. 'Eunuchs of the Hammer' the dwarven call them. Whatever their downfall, let us hope it is not discovered in our time, so that we might continue to benefit from their unquestioning, unstoppable strength."
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Jan 25, 2007 17:58:43 GMT -5
Awesome. Looking forward to the new wiki, dalton.
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khaydhaik
4th Level Troll
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Posts: 412
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Post by khaydhaik on Jan 26, 2007 12:31:28 GMT -5
I agree that it would be good if there were more advertising. Don't know what to do about that one except for everyone to post links on their web sites to FBI and FD and Trollhalla and "that company" and Hobgoblin's Tavern and canned eBay and Amazon searches for T&T, etc. We can all help the advertising in that way.
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Hogscape
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
It's not the years, it's the mileage.
Posts: 2,126
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Post by Hogscape on Jan 28, 2007 0:09:09 GMT -5
The latest issue of Hobbit Hole is 88 pages in length - the same as 5-ed T&T. If 7-ed was printed on larger pages it would be 30-40 pages. If James can work magic with HH could he publish T&T 7.5???
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Post by rebeltech on Apr 22, 2007 13:29:34 GMT -5
I Agree, "that guy" & Boozer and all the contributers to T&T unofficial products are doing the Fans a fantastic service. We don't need FBI or Fiery Dragon to produce new stuff, we all can contribute to the zines, write articles etc. Even try ur hand at writing solos. Remember Khenn's words... It's your game, do with it as you wish! We don't want thousands of D20 style addons and Mods that cost you a years wages if you want them all.... We just want "Our Game" as we see it, whether it be 5, 5e or 7th ed. (or even older edititions)
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