machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Nov 9, 2008 12:34:22 GMT -5
I was giving this some threads of thought last night.
Now, I know that it can be done. But I have to wonder, it would surely have to be more than just T&T mechanics + Old World locations/monsters/etc.
Anyone have any suggestions for what could be done to make Warhammer via T&T more...Warhammer-like?
The only things to pop in my head was using that HUGE list of careers that T-D-K has in that skill thread and Order99's excellent chart for sorcerous corruption.
I dunno. Careers giving a single skill or talent or an single point attribute raise or...?
Or am I complicating it already? Anyone that's done just this before? If so, how did you handle it? Thanks.
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Post by gamepunk26 on Nov 9, 2008 15:40:41 GMT -5
To be Warhammer you need three things: 1. Chaos- The powers of Chaos are the most prominent opponent. They infiltrate the world and corrupt people. Chaos warriors and other followers of the dark gods are everywhere. They are powerful. They are deadly opponents. Chaos is the root of magic in Warhammer and it is dangerous to use. Magic not only corrupts, it can kill or open a rift to the Realm of Chaos and cause rampant destruction on a global level. 2. Critical hit chart- The Warhammer RPG has a critical chart that is used to decide both PC and Monster death. PCs and Monsters can keep fighting well into negative toughness as long as they keep making their rolls on the crit chart. Once a roll is failed a gory, entrail splattered, headless death awaits you. 3. Insanity Points- Similar to Call of Cthulhu. You get points for witnessing horrific rituals or monsters (like your wizard exploding because he just became the vessel for a demon to materialize due to catastrophic failure rolled on the magic fumble chart.), having to roll on the crit chart for yourself, or any other horrible thing that the GM deems insanity worthy.
Of course, the world is a major part of it as well and one of my favorite things about T&T is that modules from other systems are easily converted due to matching MR to the strength of the party. You could actually scratch the careeer chart and just have your players make up their backgroud or you could roll out of the warhammer book (if you have it) and then just translate it for T&T. The thing about the Warhammer careers is that they reflect the down and out nature of the Old World. When being a fishmonger isn't paying the bills, you become a sword for hire. This is the most common theme of the careers. That, or regular people thrown into extraordinary circumstances. Desperation and despair play heavily onto Warhammer. I have considered this myself, but my players clambered for authenticity and didn't want to play Warhammer any way but with the official rules (which are awesome, btw). I am a GW fanboy and have a tremendous amount of Warhammer and 40K lore locked up in my head. If you want to tap it, let me know.
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Post by castiglione on Nov 9, 2008 16:10:19 GMT -5
For insanity, see the Cthulhu T & T thread.
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Nov 10, 2008 6:37:45 GMT -5
Insanity! Yep, I had forgetten that point.
Chaos is more a "flavor thing". I don't guess I'd really need any mechanics for things like that.
It's true that WFRP's combat is very deadly and character's are wise to not launch right into combat as some would in other rpg systems. There's a few simple ways I suppose I could make T&T combat more deadly, the easiest I guess would be to use a higher MR on a given monster than I otherwise would. I suppose I could do something on the order of a critical hit if a certain percentage or whatever of hits are taken off CON.
Monsters are the least of my worries, really. WFRP, by default, while having a number of monsters, it's sort of a given that most adventurers haven't and may not ever see a number of these creatures. In typical fantasy rpg worlds, it seems to be that most of the general populace has seen a fair amount of creatures....while in WFRP, even those that take up arms and make their ways through the dark places of the world have only simply heard about dragons and so forth. It's your fellow corrupt humans that you have to worry about stabbing you in the back and/or selling you out to the vile servants of Chaos.
I suppose I could just hand-wave the career thing. I use a simple Talent-like skill system, so I guess it's not really a matter of concern.
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Post by Toad-Killer-Dog on Nov 10, 2008 13:24:34 GMT -5
I would not worry about the career as a skill system thing, think of them instead as a background for the starting characters. Something to ground the character in the world you want.
I love the classic Warhammer world and I think one of the most important things to remember about it is that it is a science-fiction setting as much as a fantasy one.
Everything can be traced back to Chaos and the Old Slann. Magic, mutation and the gods all have their origins in the Chaos Warp.
Elves, dwarfs, halflings and humans are all genetic experiments of the Slann. The Chaos gods are intelligence's spawned by the Slann traveling through the warp and the Warhammer world was created by the collapse of the Slann's warp gates.
In fact the very name of the world "WarHammer" comes from the last Slann ship that made it through the Warp Gate before the universal failure of the Warp Gate system.
WarHammer is low fantasy with a sci-fi background.
On the up side T&T dwarfs are perfect for Warhammer. Being just that much tougher than humans and elves.
Gun powder weapons should be no problem for T&T and seeing as it will be your Warhammer world you could even bring Malal back for a little spice to your Chaos pantheon.
The basic T&T types of Warrior, Rogue and Wizard should all fit just fine into a Warhammer campaign.
I have a couple of random mutation tables if you want them and a whole archive of Warhammer articles if there is something in particular you are looking for just let me know and I'll see if I can post it for you.
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Post by Toad-Killer-Dog on Nov 15, 2008 9:09:59 GMT -5
I found a great site that has tons of fantasy maps and a whole section on Warhammer. fantasymaps.wordpress.com/category/warhammer/Check out the the huge map at the top of the page. It has maps for all kinds of fantasy and sci-fi settings. Take care Y'all. ;D
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Nov 15, 2008 14:35:00 GMT -5
I thought I had all the info on the world I needed in my 1e WFRP book, but man! Those maps rock! Thanks for the link T-D-K! Good lookin' out. I think I'm going to have the 'beginner career' be chosen and have it act as a simple meta-skill. I already use a simple skill system, but I won't mind giving the players a one more free big skill. No biggie. So you have skill at being a rat catcher? You know that the Skaven are going to sacrifice you all at midnight, right? I can't believe I didn't consider gunnes. Good thing T&T can already handle it. Also a very good point about the Dwarves. It fits. It would seem almost made for it. This seems too easy. Surely there must be a catch. Of course, I feel that a lot of the time with T&T, B/X D&D, Hack-n-Slash, Risus, etc. "I must be doing something wrong. RPGs are supposed to be hard and take up too much of my time..." btw, sorry I've been so quiet around here lately. The wonderful Swords & Wizardry has briefly seduced me. Nothing can knock T&T off my top slot however. I'm just cheating for a bit.
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Post by Mhegrrrim Skulltosser on Nov 23, 2008 0:57:01 GMT -5
I think careers could add an interesting twist to T&T rules. Characters become limited to which attributes they can increase during a career. I would make the careers themselves be talents. Each character level increase means the player can change careers. Imagine the difference between a Ratcatcher Wizard Apprentice Burglar and a Footpad Watcher Noble.
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Nov 23, 2008 7:23:36 GMT -5
Hey! That's a good idea, Mhegrrrim. At a level raise, based on the career, you have only choices A or B of attributes to increase. That works. Very interesting. But in Warhammer, you can't change careers until you've made all your advances, if I remember correctly that is... So, a road warden has, say, ST and CON perhaps. After the two levels of raising them both, then the player can opt to change the character's career. Different careers would have varying numbers of attributes to reflect the careers in WFRP. I remember some careers have one or two skills and some having over a dozen. Rat-catcher would probably have one attribute to raise, while wizard's apprentice could have three at least.
Definately something to think about.
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Post by Toad-Killer-Dog on Nov 24, 2008 17:36:43 GMT -5
Pardon me for saying so, but that seems a bit overly complicated.
Restricting advances works for WHFRP, because the career progression mechanic is the core of the whole system.
For a Warhammer T&T game I would see careers as a starting place not a progression through the game.
If you want to introduce a little "Old World" meanness into your campaign try letting players pick their Type ( Warrior, Rogue, Wizard ) and then randomly roll on a table to find the career that will make up their background.
Most people did not get to chose their career, either they followed in the career of their parents or close relatives or got apprenticed or put to work wherever they could.
Your mighty Warrior might turn out to be a dockyard bravo or rough and tumble sewer jack instead of the Knight Panther he was wishing for.
Your Wizard might turn out to be an astrologer, an archivist or a dour Priest of Morr or Zealot Esthetic of Sigmar.
How about if your up and coming Rogue ends up as a gypsy having learned magic and weapons while wandering the "Old World" or an Amazon warrior straight out of Lustria holding veiled secrets of the Old Slann fleeing from the Cocaine fevered warriors of the Sisterhood of Rig.
Sometimes a little randomness can help a player get a foothold into an unfamiliar world.
Just a thought.
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kopf
3rd Level Troll
Posts: 211
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Post by kopf on Nov 24, 2008 21:16:18 GMT -5
"Anyone have any suggestions for what could be done to make Warhammer via T&T more...Warhammer-like?"
Just play Warhammer with leprechauns?
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Post by Toad-Killer-Dog on Nov 24, 2008 21:28:36 GMT -5
"Anyone have any suggestions for what could be done to make Warhammer via T&T more...Warhammer-like?" Just play Warhammer with leprechauns?Ah, but isn't it obvious that leprechauns with their inborn powers are the minions of chaos! In Sigmar's name, exterminate them! ;D
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Post by Toad-Killer-Dog on Nov 25, 2008 6:32:30 GMT -5
Please forgive the double post.
I was wondering what signature Warhammer monsters you are planning to include in your game?
I bring this up because there are so many that I love, from the mysterious Fimir to the chaos ridden Jabberwock and the killer puffins called Razor Bills and who can forget the acid vomiting Trolls ( which is really funny because in the old fantasy battle rules a unit of Trolls all have to vomit AT THE SAME TIME. Try not to think about that, that way lies madness).
Goblin Fanatics with their giant morning stars ( Way back in the very start they had a few Goblin Fanatic minis with giant boomerangs, although I never remember seeing rules for them).
I myself am a huge fan of anything that came from the old version of Lusturia. Amazons, Lobotomized Slave warriors, all kinds of cool Slann and their lost culture and even the other alien species on Warhammer the very Un-PC Pygmies.
Just curious. ;D
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Nov 25, 2008 17:23:35 GMT -5
T-D-K, I can appreciate how you could view the career/attribute raise thing as a complication. It is. I just don't think it's complicated. I hope that makes sense. It is indeed another layer, but I don't think it's that big of a deal and I think it goes a little way towards the original question, which was taking the T&T core and adding some house-ruleish stuff to give it a WFRP flavor. Dig? As far as monsters... I haven't really thought about monsters too much, as to me they are incidental in Warhammer. Well...maybe not incidental, but sure much more so than in typical fantasy rpgs. But in the interest of the question, I'm still not sure... but undead have always seemed very Warhammer to me. As well as their brand of Orcs, with the Brit punk dialect and everything. Skavens were always a fave of mine as were Chaos Beastmen. It's just so easy to hate (as well as be threatened by) things that are so foul and vile and corrupt. I was just reading over the stuff about mutants in the Enemy Within campaign. That sounds interesting. I've never run the Enemy Within even though it's the definitive WFRP adventure(s). Looking over it again now, I remember why. It's just simply far too much for me to remember to be able to competently run. The level of detail is way too much for my head to hold to be a good GM with the material. And I'm sorry, maybe it's the intention, but I'll be damned if I have to read a gaming product (adventures especially) two or three or four times just to use it.
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Post by Toad-Killer-Dog on Nov 25, 2008 18:12:29 GMT -5
If you do end up writing up some careers in T&T terms as far as advances go please post them. I would be very interested how you would go about it. I mean would it be something simple like you can buy advances in physical stats in warrior type careers and mental stats in magic and academic careers. Or something more along the lines of the Warhammer model with each career with having mapped out allowable advances. Anyway as someone who has done a kind of off the cuff T&T Warhammer I would love to see how someone else will spin with it. P.S. Just don't forget the Slann, they have been much abused and need a little love....ok that sounds kind of creepy when I write it down.
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