machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Dec 27, 2008 5:47:30 GMT -5
Do you mean the level of the SR that was just failed?...as a way to "save" it? I'm confused by the way you're describing it since you said "little mistakes" but then follow with "blowing a big SR" which I find sorta contradictory. I apologize. It's probably just me being slow on the uptake, but I can't quite parse what you're getting at here.
As far as only for Warriors and Rogues. I dunno. Yeah, the Wizards do outstrip them in later levels, but I still don't know if I would consider it fair. Now...as written the rogue already doesn't have much really going for him, unless a GM makes it real easy for him to aquire spells, so I'd probably leave it as a rogue 'ability'. I use the warrior and rogue (and the simple skill system as well) as written in Mythical Sixth Edition, so i don't have to worry about wizards leaving them in the dust.
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Post by Toad-Killer-Dog on Dec 27, 2008 11:17:15 GMT -5
Ah, sorry I should not write so much when I'm suffering from insomnia. I mean that instead of a set cost it would be a sliding scale dependent on difficulty. So three times a level 3 SR would be 9 and so on. And yes I meant it to be spent after the roll is botched.
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Post by mahrundl on Dec 27, 2008 17:23:42 GMT -5
As far as temporary LUCK burn goes how about three times the level of the SR in points? That way little mistakes would not be nearly as costly as blowing a big SR and it would have an immediate effect on both your future SR's and combat ( at least until you gained the points back ). Hey or how about making that an ability only Rogues or Warriors can use. At higher levels that might help even out the Warrior, Wizard power imbalance. Hmm, I kind of like that. Three times the SR level would probably work OK. The idea of only allowing temporary Luck burning only for Warriors is an interesting one. Of course, reduced Luck also means reduced combat adds, so in general a Warrior will not want to burn temporary Luck any more than he has to.
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Post by Toad-Killer-Dog on Dec 27, 2008 17:32:31 GMT -5
As far as temporary LUCK burn goes how about three times the level of the SR in points? That way little mistakes would not be nearly as costly as blowing a big SR and it would have an immediate effect on both your future SR's and combat ( at least until you gained the points back ). Hey or how about making that an ability only Rogues or Warriors can use. At higher levels that might help even out the Warrior, Wizard power imbalance. Hmm, I kind of like that. Three times the SR level would probably work OK. The idea of only allowing temporary Luck burning only for Warriors is an interesting one. Of course, reduced Luck also means reduced combat adds, so in general a Warrior will not want to burn temporary Luck any more than he has to. I thought that way it would keep the ability from being too powerful.
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Dec 27, 2008 19:17:02 GMT -5
Ah, yes. I follow now, T-K-D. Yeah, I think the three time the SR level would work. It certainly would keep a player from being too cavalier with it, which is as it should be.
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Post by Mhegrrrim Skulltosser on Dec 29, 2008 23:53:52 GMT -5
Fate Points (or even better Possibility Points) are a favorite of mine in other games. T&T though already had Luck. For years I did nothing special. After getting tired of countless characters dying at the worst moments I created a House Rule: [glow=blue,2,300]Luck Burn[/glow] - PCs may spend 1 or more permanent LK to guarantee a successful SR. Some examples: - -1 LK, survive certain death with 1d3 CON
- -2 LK make the SR with the bare minimum roll required.
- -3 LK make the SR with 1 level above the required amount.
- A creative GM may even change the environment to aid the PC. I did this when a PC was chasing a thief. The thief leapt over a fence, the PC failed the SR. He spent 1 LK, AND discovered to the thief's dismay a guard dog was kept inside the yard. Thief became chew toy. The PC laughed and watched.
Later I created secret Psychic abilities to help PCs (a lot of work and not worth saying any more) When 7ed came out, I expanded the Luck Burn by modifying Wizardry to be Hero (HRO). [glow=blue,2,300]Hero (HRO)[/glow]– The stuff that form legends. This attribute represents internal greatness and potential. These points may be spent in the place of other attribute losses, permanent or temporary. Temporarily spent Hero points recover at a rate of one per hour. I really like HRO. It has a huge impact on play and works best with 5ed rules. HRO can be spent at any time to recover attribute losses. Players often hold it in reserve until desperately needing healing or recovery.
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Post by mahrundl on Dec 30, 2008 2:08:45 GMT -5
You know, I really like the idea of Hero. Have an Exalt!
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Dec 30, 2008 5:22:46 GMT -5
Mhegrrrim,
First I was gonna ask why it cost less to avoid death...but then I realized I was just being dense, as it actually costs more...to not fail and be hurting badly. Duh.
Bearing in mind that my brain is in that sort of state, go easy on me. ;D I was wondering, if a character burns these luck points permanently (which I like), they only ever see more luck points by leveling up in 5e or otherwise spending APs on attribute raises in 7e.... then what makes that more attractive than going along as normal? I mean, after a while, burning the points would result in a n level character with far lower luck than he otherwise would have had, and he would have been better off and more successful at making SRs with the luck he "should have" had, right? I guess maybe I'm looking at it from the wrong end? Is it really a matter in you and your groups eyes of "Oh, well. Them's the breaks."? If that's the intent, then I wouldn't have any problem with it. Still, I guess it would improve survivability so that a PC could actually even make it to n level, huh?
I really like Hero too. Did you completely replace WIZ with HRO?
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Post by Mhegrrrim Skulltosser on Dec 30, 2008 15:27:10 GMT -5
Still, I guess it would improve survivability so that a PC could actually even make it to n level, huh? I really like Hero too. Did you completely replace WIZ with HRO? LoL! ;D Always love your comments and observations. You got it all around. Most players save Luck Burns for life and death situations. I try not to kill PCs, but players are wonderful at throwing their characters into death's harm. EVEN AFTER I tell them they cannot survive!! How much LK they burn depends on each situation. I am not above permanently scarring a PC who tries to jump over lava to engage his hated mentor and only willing to burn just 1 point LK. Everyone should know it did not work for Anakin so maybe spending 2 or 3 LK would be a good idea. Luck Burn was created to allow PCs to survive. In 5e, Luck is the natural choice of attributes to increase with a ×2 bonus. PCs leveling up after a couple of Luck Burns chose to increase LK. I did replace WIZ with HRO completely. Luck Burns do not happen as often anymore. Most players use HRO to keep a character from dying at the bottom of a pit trap. HRO is so much more versatile than WIZ.
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Dec 31, 2008 5:28:01 GMT -5
Thanks for the compliment. Even if you're laughing at me since I was doing the same. This does make a lot of sense. Especially regarding the advancement of LK in 5th. If I ran some extremely heroic HIGH PHAANTUHSI!! sort of campaign, I'd likely utilize both that and HRO. Actually, HRO would work in a more pulpy S&S game as well. Alright, so you use it instead of WIZ. So let me ask: Have you bothered to rationalize why it is that HRO gives spell-casters their power and strength to cast? (I ask since it doesn't seem inherent in the definition of it you gave earlier.)
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Post by Toad-Killer-Dog on Dec 31, 2008 22:04:00 GMT -5
Thats the best method I've seen Mhegrrrim. It well balances the system and plays to the x2 LUCK advancement in 5th edition.
It also keeps the players on their toes, which is always a good thing! ;D
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Post by Mhegrrrim Skulltosser on Jan 1, 2009 0:30:30 GMT -5
Alright, so you use it instead of WIZ. So let me ask: Have you bothered to rationalize why it is that HRO gives spell-casters their power and strength to cast? (I ask since it doesn't seem inherent in the definition of it you gave earlier.) I rationalize everything (I hope that is a good thing ;D). I see all magic as causing damage. Spell casters pay for spells out of their life. Using HRO for magic is just like using HRO to survive an arrow wound. The concept grew out of 5ed with spells costing STR. A spell caster could use up all their STR and die of a heart attack. Also, Ken once wrote that the god-wizards of the Wizards' War tapped into another power beside STR for their magic. All together that sounds like the god-wizards learned to tap into HRO (or even WIZ). As a result, I still allow magic users to use STR for spells. HRO is a substitute when they desperately need more STR and just don't have it. You'll see I do not let HRO recover nearly as fast as WIZ.
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
|
Post by machfront on Jan 1, 2009 10:27:29 GMT -5
Thanks for the explanation! Sounds good and certainly something for me to consider using. I'll have to scratch it down on my house rules notepad.
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