Odder
4th Level Troll
DON'T LOOK AT ME!!
Posts: 264
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Post by Odder on Jan 8, 2009 10:52:32 GMT -5
I have a big issue with running T&T for my group at the momment due to magic weapons. I only havethe 7.5 rules and only the starting adventure and right now lack the funds to buy anything else adventure wise to see what the progression in magic weapons is supposed to be.
I have no clue what type of magic weapons is good for what level.
Is a 9d magic sword a good weapon for a 4th character to have? Is that too much? At 10th level is a 20d magic sword the bomb or is that just nuts? I have no clue.
If there is a good rule of thumb to use I would love to read it!!
Also I only have a limited number of spells and would love to find out if there was a rule about spell level verse spell damage ect as well.
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Post by Toad-Killer-Dog on Jan 8, 2009 11:33:24 GMT -5
I think it really depends on what you feel appropriate for your game.
There have never been any hard and fast rules for level to effectiveness for T&T.
Myself I tend to make my magic items colorful, interesting and not that powerful and if they are powerful they should have major limitations.
Adding a die or maybe two is great for non-magic but superior weapon and low level magic weapons. Although I would add in something else for the magic weapon, say glows in the presence of a certain kind of enemy or the pommel stone of the blade purifies food and drink.
Remember more color than firepower, as far as the solos go they vary pretty wildly. Some like Naked-Doom & Arena of Khazan have weapons that can make a low level character all but unkillable in a fair fight.
Perhaps try giving your magic weapons abilities other than increased combat dice?
Like say throwing daggers that return once thrown and ignore the armor of opponents.
Or a shield with a face that has a chance ( Say a 3rd level SR ) to eat non-magical blades and axes that it parries.
Or perhaps a wooden circlet that can turn a characters skin into bark for 6 combat turns a day providing an additional 5 points of armor while in effect.
I wish I had a better answer, but T&T is all about where you want to take it.
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Odder
4th Level Troll
DON'T LOOK AT ME!!
Posts: 264
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Post by Odder on Jan 8, 2009 12:14:32 GMT -5
I guess as far as weapons go I just needed a idea of what was low and high powered. In D&D for example a +1 is at one end and a +5 at the other. Now what level you passed those out was up to you but that was the range. Now there were some epic swords with higher bous ect but those were like 1 in a game not standard.
In T&T its much more free form I understand but what is that range normally?
I don't understand the range at all. For all I know a 10D6 magic sword is very low and a 40D6 magic sword is Epic.....or it might not be like that at all.
I know that the high end MUST be high because the MR and D6+adds of the high end monsters is through the roof!
I just need some sort of range to go by.
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Post by gamepunk26 on Jan 8, 2009 14:02:54 GMT -5
Be careful adding dice to the characters damage pool. You have to adjust your monsters damage concurrently in order to keep them challenging.
TKDs suggestions are good. Alter what the weapon does instead of just the damage. In my game I tend to give the magic items abilities that work like the spells in the game. At lower levels they are powered by the WIZ of the character using them. For instance a sword that has Vorpal Blade enchanted into it has the ability to use the spell on itself. The Warrior wielding it channels his WIZ into it which activates the spell allowing him to use it that turn instead of waiting a round for the effect. This limits the use and creates a sort of dramatic moment when the sword "powers up" and delivers a deadly blow.
You can do this with any item and any spell combo. A cloak or ring that casts Hidey Hole when WIZ is channeled into it. A wand that shoots TTYF or Blasting Power. Anything really. At medium and higher levels you can change the items to have their own WIZ scores or to have a set number of charges, or to have a spell permanently cast on them. A sword that has Vorpal Blade cast on it can do alot of damage, but is mitigated by the fact that sometimes the dice will come up low. Adding more dice to the damage pool can be frustrating when your players are smashing down everything you throw at them. MRs are wonderful tools, but they take some time to get right.
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Post by mahrundl on Jan 8, 2009 14:26:40 GMT -5
General agreement with what T-K-D and Gamepunk26 have said. Don't, as a rule, give a flat bonus, unless it's a fairly small one. Major powers should have limitations on use, or should have a drawback such as needing to be powered by the bearer's WIZ (or other attribute).
Randomness is also good. While there should be more positives than negatives (otherwise, the character just won't use the item), having a chance that the magic will have a different effect than expected can be fun.
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Odder
4th Level Troll
DON'T LOOK AT ME!!
Posts: 264
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Post by Odder on Jan 8, 2009 14:58:35 GMT -5
So what im getting is that you guys dont actually add damage dice to weapons. My D&D crunchy game background seems to be holding me back darn it!
How does your warrior stand up to a Harpy for instance that gets MR-245 = 25D6 + 123 (6/befuddl) + Fly me?
I mean if even at 5th level he is still swinging that great sword 6D6 +his adds.
It seems to me he would get his rear handed to him!
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Jan 8, 2009 15:33:03 GMT -5
Everyone's covered the basics here so far, and very well too.
But you were asking for a standard range of numbers. Well, there isn't one. T&T just doesn't work like that, since it's so very open-ended. I mean, a range of added dice could be literally 1 to infinity. Seriously.
And yes, I do add damage dice to magic weapons, as I'm sure a number of folks do who are playing/running T&T, but... You asked how does a warrior stand up to a strong monster that also has special abilities. How? Well, either he does or he doesn't. It's that simple. However if you wanted the character to stand a chance, you wouldn't have put him in a situation that set him face-to-face with a creature that had such a high MR + special abilities like that. Make the harpy MR 45 or something. There is no standard for MRs, no matter what Monstrum Codex suggests. (Of course, I prefer more or less standard MRs for my beasties, but that's mine and my group's own thing.)
Of course, that's another discussion, but suffice it to say, that T&T isn't a game of defined numbers for specific powers or monsters or situations. It can seem like more of a burden, but it's really liberating actually. You simply need to take and view T&T on it's own terms and merits.
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Post by mahrundl on Jan 9, 2009 16:20:07 GMT -5
What Machfront said.
A 5th level Warrior has at least one advantage over a first level Warrior: she's better at making SRs. In particular, she's better at making SRs to do clever things in combat situations. Whether that means dodging the attacking Harpy and looping a rope around its neck, or feigning helplessness to fake it out and catch it off-guard with a lethal strike, the 5th level Warrior is going to be better able to succeed in general.
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Jan 9, 2009 16:28:36 GMT -5
Argh! I knew I forgot something important! SRs! Indeed. Just like mahrundl said, (and as discussed in the rules) SRs can indeed be used within combat to do just about anything. T&T combat doesn't have to stay within it's own structure as most games, and that's part of the beauty of it.
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Post by Mhegrrrim Skulltosser on Jan 27, 2009 22:01:50 GMT -5
I personally like level based magic items. Like Master's Dominion - Greatsword gets 6d+ d6 equal to the character's level. Higher level the better the weapon gets.
On the smaller side, there was a charm in City of Terrors which permitted a PC to never die from missing a SR. (could still get hurt, just not die)
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unclecranky
5th Level Troll
(mutter...grumble)
Posts: 657
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Post by unclecranky on Feb 19, 2009 20:54:47 GMT -5
And yes, Gameogre, sometimes you do add dice or extra adds to magic weapons. The major thing to consider when you're crafting such things is that what seems like a good but not major advantage at first through fourth level can become a major nightmare at 10th or 15th. Add in the fact that T&T has no real level limits, and you can make an unkillable warrior with a 6 die sword with 6 additional dice-if you're not careful. Of course, that might be what you're after...
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order99
7th Level Troll
Coffee-fueled Carrion That Walks Like a Man
Posts: 1,039
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Post by order99 on Feb 20, 2009 1:57:06 GMT -5
If you're worried about overpowering your devices-why not just build in a Price? I tend to run somewhat grittier stuff than the standard T&T-often I actually run it with MS&PE-and many of my magic items give with one hand and take with another. And the more it gives, the more it takes...
Here's a few samples from my old games:
Heartseeker- This serpent-headed light crossbow requires no DX minimums. If you can fire it, the bolts (enchanted to do 5D+5 D6) never miss. Ever. Good news, right? Maybe...the firer must still make a normal attack roll. If the roll succeeds, then he has hit the target desired-otherwise, make a second attack roll on the nearest target, friend or foe. Keep rolling until SOMEONE is hit. On a Fumble, the Serpent punishes you for your poor aim by turning in your grip and sinking its fangs into your arm-take a 1D+2 attack which bypasses half your AR, and if any damage is taken make a Lvl 2 SR on CN and take the difference in DX damage. Damage to DX is recovered in the same way as lost ST. Be careful now...
Poison Ivy Torc- This item will be inactive when first worn-once it has been warmed by the body of the wearer(1D6 Turns), it awakens and burrows into its wearers arm. The process is painful but quick and results in no lasting damage save for an odd, twisted scar on the arm. The PC can now go Berserk at will without failing an IQ SR-even if a Wizard or Rogue-and gains an additional 1D6 to all attacks as well as the normal Berserking benefits and pitfalls. The bad news-anytime the PC Fumbles an IQ SR, he immediately goes Berserk, regardless of the consequences-though he can be calmed under the normal Berserking rules. May I recommend the Decaf?
Dead Man's Eyes- These odd, crystalline lenses may be worn across a Delver's eyes and allow him to see perfectly in any normal or magical darkness, smoke or fog, though illusions may still deceive. If used in any light brighter than dawn, dusk or lantern light, cut all dice and adds by half (ranged SRs at 2 Lvls higher) until popped out. If the Delver ever uses them longer than a full day and night, the lenses may no longer be removed. Find someplace dark, sleep in...
Blood Weapon- These assorted melee weapons are noticeable for their rough Sharkskin grips and Obsidian or Hematite inlay. These weapons function as normal in all respects-but a naked grip(no gloves or Gauntlets) is required to access its magic. When a Delver deliberately twists the pommel and grip across his wrist-taking 1 CN and 1D+1 ST damage-the weapon Awakens for 1D6 Combat rounds. During this time, it acts as a weapon under the influence of a Double, Double spell, then is 'sated' for at least 2D+3 Combat Rounds. Lost ST and CN are recovered as normal by the weapon's wielder-though the scars may build up after awhile.
Last Call- this unique staff has outlived at least a half-dozen previous owners. Made of dark Ironwood with brass inlay, the Last Call may be used as a Staff Ordinare by Wizards and is a 3D+3 weapon in the hands of any Type. In addition, the following powers may be utilized: 1) Defensive Silk Stance-for a cost of 5 ST, the weapon generates 6D+6 total, applied as AR to any melee and missle attacks for 1 round. The user may not attack at all, but may use the AR totals to protect other persons nearby and may split the totals-the staff parries attacks and missles at inhuman speeds. 2) Final Countdown-the user mutters a command to the staff, which begins a high, horrible keening. At the end of this round, the user takes 4D+10 damage directly to his own CN...if this kills the user, a 50' explosion occurs, doing damage equal to the users undamaged Ability Totals. Targets may attempt LK or DX SRs against this total to lessen the damage. If the user still lives though, the lost CN is added directly to the Users ST and can be used for Spellcasting (or simply in a fight as it modifies Personal Adds). The added ST is lost after it is used up or in 3 hours, whichever comes first. Activate the Countdown at your own peril...
Alternately, make useful items with minor but useful powers, such as:
Contagious Soap-when applied to non-living, unenchanted items, the items become half as hard as nomal and somewhat ductile, making wood as easy to carve and press as soap, metal as easy to shape as clay and stone as easy to shape as soft wood. The effect lasts for 8 hours per application before wearing off, leaving the material as strong as ever. A bar of soap is good for 1D6+2 applications before being used up. Use of this soap on living beings or magic items just gets them really clean and fresh.
Purple Dragon Wine-this rare vintage is highly potent and very, very useful. If a Delver has failed an SR and now suffers under a continuing condition(Curse, Mind Pox, Yassa-massa, slow poison or disease etc) a single glass of this subtle claret allows an SR-on whatever Ability the original SR was based on-to break the effect. There will only be 5 decent glasses per bottle.
Bloodwax Candles- These waxed rushlights are normal in every way but one-if two or more users drip a tiny amount of blood into the candle, and divide the candle between them, they may communicate over long distances. When one user lights a candle portion, the other portions light as well. If the other users(who contributed blood) are within 10' of the lit candle the two may communicate mind to mind. In addition, some spells may be cast between the link if the recipient is willing, but only spells that target the individual or his equipment (Healing Feeling, Vorpal Blade etc). A Bloodwax Candle broken in two is good for 3 hours of continuous use, 4 pieces for one hour and one broken into 10 stubs only lasts 10 minutes. Note that as many as ten persons can blood a candle at once and remain linked, so you could have a group of , say, 8 novice Delvers networked to one or two Wizard Patrons by a single Bloodwax Candle snapped in half...a good way to gain access to advice and magic assistance from afar!
And so on. The trick is to make each item unique and memorable-a Target Shield that turns Reflective on command (anti-medusa or Basilisk) will be more flavorful than one which provides 20 AR. Just grab your Purple Crayon and doodle until your brain hits a neat image and go from there-
-and then let us know what you come up with. We like Cool Gear!
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Post by zanshin on Feb 20, 2009 7:34:26 GMT -5
Also , check out various threads in the provisions and equipment zone for more ideas.
If you want a rule of thumb, how about magic items having about 1 bonus dice (or other cool thing) per character level, and scale the encounters to match.
If you have too much dice inflation there is too much counting of dice in combat IME
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unclecranky
5th Level Troll
(mutter...grumble)
Posts: 657
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Post by unclecranky on Feb 20, 2009 21:19:18 GMT -5
There's another way to control it, as well, that Order99 gave many excellent examples of, and nobody's really talked about... Make it funny! Everybody's game has a +5 Sword, but how many can lay claim to handing out a +5 Claymore (+9 against hamsters, Lobster-kin killer, -8 against were-creatures) that also pops out a dwarf-clown whenever the aforementioned critters are around?
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unclecranky
5th Level Troll
(mutter...grumble)
Posts: 657
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Post by unclecranky on Feb 20, 2009 21:20:03 GMT -5
And yes, I MEAN negative eight versus were-creatures.
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