|
|
Post by xyglegrak on Jan 16, 2009 11:31:20 GMT -5
Does anybody here have insight into how a GM is to prepare and conduct a delve into Gristlegrim Dungeon? I recently purchased it from "that company" and am inspired to make use of it, but the book is mostly just a collection of room descriptions and gives little clue how the GM is to use it. I visited www.gristlegrim.com and understand that it is a six level ever-changing complex of 100x100x100 rooms. I'm guessing that the GM is to randomly determine the layout of the complex prior to (or even during) each delve. What confuses me is that most of the room descriptions indicate which walls have doors. This suggests that there is to be some logic to how the levels are laid out, rather than completely random. |
|
|
|
Post by lionrampant on Jan 16, 2009 13:59:30 GMT -5
Back in 1999 I played in a T&T game set in Gristlegrim run by ol' Ken himself. He had every room written on a 4x6 index card, and he just shuffled the deck and dealt himself the cards as we moved from room to room. I want to say that we had a 2-hour long slot, so he dealt himself a deck of 10 or 15 cards, which we didn't even get all the way through.
|
|
koraq
4th Level Troll
Posts: 355
|
Post by koraq on Jan 18, 2009 20:41:08 GMT -5
I seem to remember that Gristlegrim is Ken's experiment in "endless" adventuring. You never know what the oddball god of the vertically challenged will have you enter this time.
I'm not sure that design idea works, but some replay value will it add, I grant him that.
|
|
|
|
Post by castiglione on Jan 18, 2009 21:22:12 GMT -5
Is this how the original Gristlegrim was set up? The very first dungeon ever adventured in by Ken St. Andre's playtest group?
The random room thingy is often done in solitaire dungeon-crawling games. The best example is Sorcerer's Cave.
|
|
|
|
Post by castiglione on Jan 18, 2009 23:25:15 GMT -5
I seem to remember that Gristlegrim is Ken's experiment in "endless" adventuring. You never know what the oddball god of the vertically challenged will have you enter this time. I'm not sure that design idea works, but some replay value will it add, I grant him that. Seems like a variation of Deathtrap Equalizer Dungeon...except instead of teleporting from situation to situation, you go from random room to random room. One could probably develop a decent solitaire adventure using this concept...you "map" out the dungeon as you play by drawing cards - the cards lead you to specific paragraphs. So you end up with a 10 x 10 (or whatever) card map made up of cards with paragraphs. Each room has four exits, except for the rooms at the corners and "boundaries". The random layout can affect game-play, i.e. you enter a room with a really tough monster that you don't want to fight so you choose to flee (fleeing should be relatively "easy" with four doors to the room), you might need to carefully choose which direction you go in, depending on what you've already explored, etc. |
|
|
|
Post by apeloverage on Jan 19, 2009 1:10:53 GMT -5
Seems like a variation of Deathtrap Equalizer Dungeon...except instead of teleporting from situation to situation, you go from random room to random room. One could probably develop a decent solitaire adventure using this concept...you "map" out the dungeon as you play by drawing cards - the cards lead you to specific paragraphs. So you end up with a 10 x 10 (or whatever) card map made up of cards with paragraphs. Each room has four exits, except for the rooms at the corners and "boundaries". The random layout can affect game-play, i.e. you enter a room with a really tough monster that you don't want to fight so you choose to flee (fleeing should be relatively "easy" with four doors to the room), you might need to carefully choose which direction you go in, depending on what you've already explored, etc. The game Sorcerer's Cave is quite like this. |
|
|
|
Post by castiglione on Jan 19, 2009 9:02:23 GMT -5
I thought about Sorcerer's Cave myself but thought the arrangement could lead to something requiring a bit more thought and risk management on the part of the player. If a large enough proportion of the rooms contain something VERY dangerous, i.e. really tough monsters or traps or whatever, players would have to be very careful about the pathway they take from A to B.
|
|
|
|
Post by lionrampant on Jan 19, 2009 11:47:58 GMT -5
I seem to remember that Gristlegrim is Ken's experiment in "endless" adventuring. You never know what the oddball god of the vertically challenged will have you enter this time. I'm not sure that design idea works, but some replay value will it add, I grant him that. Seems like a variation of Deathtrap Equalizer Dungeon...except instead of teleporting from situation to situation, you go from random room to random room. One could probably develop a decent solitaire adventure using this concept...you "map" out the dungeon as you play by drawing cards - the cards lead you to specific paragraphs. So you end up with a 10 x 10 (or whatever) card map made up of cards with paragraphs. Each room has four exits, except for the rooms at the corners and "boundaries". The random layout can affect game-play, i.e. you enter a room with a really tough monster that you don't want to fight so you choose to flee (fleeing should be relatively "easy" with four doors to the room), you might need to carefully choose which direction you go in, depending on what you've already explored, etc. I will note that when I played in Ken's game, each room had one door in, and one door out. Once you entered the room, the doors magically sealed until you defeated the monster/bypassed the trap/solved the riddle. So there was no running away from a tough fight, you just had to make it work somehow. |
|
|
|
Post by castiglione on Jan 19, 2009 15:11:31 GMT -5
So in many ways, it WAS like Deathtrap Equalizer!
Interesting...
|
|
|
|
Post by Mhegrrrim Skulltosser on Jan 22, 2009 21:30:41 GMT -5
You've got it. Ken is a fan of random mayhem. It is very easy to end up in a instant lose situation in Gristlegrim's Cube. "that company" also has Treasure Trail Rules. Very similar concept to Sorcerer's Cave. |
|
|
|
Post by Porkbelly on Jan 27, 2009 22:16:12 GMT -5
Xyglegrak, I also just bought Gristlegrim off NobleKnight... Mine is tagged as second printing Oct 2008 and it seems to be about 60 pages lighter then one described on the OP website - for example there are 39 rooms on level one. Is yours different?
|
|
|
|
Post by xyglegrak on Feb 1, 2009 21:23:45 GMT -5
Xyglegrak, I also just bought Gristlegrim off NobleKnight... Mine is tagged as second printing Oct 2008 and it seems to be about 60 pages lighter then one described on the OP website - for example there are 39 rooms on level one. Is yours different? Porkbelly, mine is the same 2nd printing as you describe. I hadn't bothered to count the pages until you brought it to my attention. Very disappointing. Anybody have a "1st Printing"? Thanks to everybody for contributing to this thread. I decided to take my campaign a different direction instead of Gristlegrim Dungeon. I'm GM'ing a short online campaign for my brother based on Paul Jaquay's classic Book of Treasure Maps. This is our first time using T&T and so far so good! Check it out: bookoftreasuremaps.pbwiki.com/ |
|
|
|
Post by Porkbelly on Feb 2, 2009 8:03:33 GMT -5
Actually, Shipy has the intro and contents page up on Lulu. so I can see it's in 4th printing already (Jan 2009) and has been considerably expanded (for example the room count on level one has gone from 39 to 51 rooms). Anyway, it's no big deal I guess as every room is a one-off - but I wonder if Shipy will put out an expansion pack or just keep it as an ever-changing work in progress like the trollworld history.
Glad to see another fan of the Judges Guild line - there's so much of it readily available in pdf, it's retro, it's cheap and it's relatively generic. Will be following your campaign notes with interest - good luck with it!
|
|
koraq
4th Level Troll
Posts: 355
|
Post by koraq on Feb 16, 2009 22:01:05 GMT -5
That book is one of the best JG ever put out. I love it. I'll go off and inspect those campaign notes at once!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 11, 2009 11:23:00 GMT -5
When finished, Gristlegrim Dungeon will consist of 6 levels with 52 rooms per level (except the special level 7); the rooms on level 7 are the “alternate world” rooms and number less than 10. It also features 52 Gristlegrim monsters (with stats and in-depth backgrounds for each monster). But I am getting ahead of myself. Let me state that Gristlegrim Dungeon is a work in progress. In fact it’s the way Ken wanted it to be when "that company" started the project. Gristlegrim Dungeon arrived on my door step over a year ago, consisting of hundreds of hand written index cards (some very poorly written, food stained, fading and discolored with age). Ken had this idea that we would publish Gristlegrim Dungeon, print it and sell just a few copies, which in turn would pay to continually update and expand it until every single index card was typed in. Currently Gristlegrim Dungeon stands at 296 pages (in its 6th printing). It will likely exceed 400+ pages when finished. My printer says the max page count is 470, so it will end up being less than that. If you are the owner of one of those earlier Gristlegrim Dungeon printings, they are very rare now. Even with the very first printing there was more than enough adventure to keep the GM and players busy for days. But now it might take players weeks to visit every room, some of which might make you laugh, scream or scratch your head in puzzlement. Gristlegrim Dungeon was the first dungeon for T&T and stills stands as the largest dungeon ever written. Best of all, it was written by Ken St. Andre. Gristlegrim Dungeon is updated regularly at my printer (just check the GD page count). The link to my printer can be found on the "that company" main page at: outlaw-press.com/"that company" Publisher, James ~ |
|
