Ogre gives it a valiant effort

[dandelion]

So I dug out my old T&T stuff and found City of Terrors, which I then resolved to play using the v7 rulebook, to prove to the world that not only could it be done, but even an Ogre could do it...

...and I...

...didn't get it.

I completely, totally, utterly didn't get it.

I had fun making my character sheet, though it's a little sloppy. Hm, you know what the primary problem is? Aside from there not being a random jewel generator for miles around, that is. I don't grasp combat. I have yet to read a step-by-step combat instruction guide that's the least bit helpful to me. V7 doesn't have one, V5.5 doesn't have one, my ogre-mate can't explain it well, and having to ask GMs to roll all my dice for me for 9 years running hasn't taught me a thing.

It seems simple enough at first until I start rolling. If I roll a 14, do I kill the archer or not? If I do, does he injure me in the process? What is a 'round' exactly? And then logic sets in - I know enough practical physics to question the viability of my results no matter how I interpret them.

And in addition to all that, I really miss having people around to make the game dynamic.

So, yeah, Ogre gives up. City of Terrors goes back into the box. It is still, in fact, mint.

[mahrundl]

Dandelion, does this help at all? I'm assuming a normal melee situation, so everything happens 'simultaneously'.

1. Calculate any damage for magic in melee. Note the amount, and which creatures are the targets.
2. Calculate any damage for missile weapons being used in melee. Note the amount, and which creatures are the targets.
3. Calculate any damage for hand-to-hand attack.
4. Total the attack of both sides, and determine the difference between the two totals (call this amount X). The lower total loses the combat for this round. Separately note any Spite damage (6s rolled) on either side.

5. Assign damage

If magic and missile weapons were not involved, the losing side takes X damage. The losing side chooses how the damage is assigned. Armour and shields absorb their rated number of hits (doubled for Warriors and Paragons).

If magic or missile weapons were involved, there are 2 steps:

a) The arrows and spells do the calculated amount of damage to the designated targets, and only to those targets. This damage occurs no matter whether the target is on the winning or losing side. Armour protects against missiles, but not against magic.

b) Total the magic and missile damage dealt to the losing side before armour was factored in. Call this amount M. The losing side shares (X - M) damage. If M is greater than X, the losing side takes no damage here. As before, the losing side chooses how to allocate the damage, and armour protects.

In all cases, note how much damage is applied to each creature after armour has been taken into account. Now factor in the effect of poisons, and other things of that nature.*

6. Assign Spite damage to both sides. Armour does not protect. There does not seem to be a rule as to whether Spite damage should have poison and the like factored in; I personally wouldn't, but you may want to.

7. Make changes to ST, CON and WIZ (and any other attributes that are affected).

If anything is unclear, please let me know and I'll try to clarify.

A round is 2 minutes. It's the designated time that an 'attack' takes, including all of the looking for openings, tripping over corpses while jostling for position, yelling war cries and so forth.

Also, forget real-world physics. This isn't the real world. Or at least, the physics there are quite different to the physics we know...

Now, as for random jewel generation, let me check my files.

[ironfang]

What the heck...


Roll 2d6: 2/jewel, 3-11/coins, 12/jewel and coins

COINS: roll 3d6 times 10 for quantity, then roll 1d6 for type: 1/cp, 2-4/sp, 5-6/gp

JEWELS:
(A) roll 1d6 for size - 1/small(BVx5), 2/average(BVx10), 3/large(BVx20), 4/larger(BVx50), 5/huge(BVx100), 6/jeweled item
(B) roll 2d6 for gem type, you'll need to differentiate between 1st die and 2nd die.
(format is) 1st die/2nd die/name/Base Value(BV)
1/1-2/quartz/1
1/3-4/enamel/2
1/5-6/topaz/3
2/1-2/garnet/4
2/3-4/turquoise/5
2/5-6/amethyst/6
3/1-2/ivory/7
3/3-4/carnelian/8
3/5-6/opal/9
4/1-2/fire opal/10
4/3-4/aquamarine/11
4/5-6/jade/12
5/1-2/serpentine/13
5/3-4/pearl/14
5/5-6/ruby/15
6/1-2/sapphire/16
6/3-4/diamond/17
6/5-6/emerald/18

JEWELED ITEM:
(A) determine the type as above, then roll 1d6 for number of jewels
(B) roll 1d6 for item: 1/necklace, 2/headgear, 3/bracelet, 4/ring, 5/belt, 6/weapon
(C) roll 1d6 for setting: 1/leather, 2/copper, 3/bronze, 4/iron, 5/silver, 6/gold
(D) for weapon: 1/dagger, 2/sword, 3/polearm, 4/hafted, 5/spear, 6/missile; then roll 3d6, choose weapon with closest STR requirement

ENJOY!

[dandelion]

I have no questions for Gimor and his treasure generator. Oh wait, I do. Enamel? Huh?

(That was rhetorical.)

Mahrundl, however, you get some questions.

1) What's a 'side'? Does that include everybody in the party/band/gaggle/pack/etc.? Or just each individual one at a time? I thought it was the latter until you said, "The losing side chooses how the damage is assigned."

2) If damage is on an individual basis, what choices do I have when assigning damage?

3) In a basic hand-to-hand attack, the winning side takes no damage?

4) How is this possible? There's such a variety of weapons that do very concrete things. Say I swipe you with my sword and you clobber me with your club. I've just given you a big slice wound down your side, but your roll is better and you have more adds. Does that mean your wound doesn't count?

5) If damage is distributed amongst a group, how do I know when my opponents are dead when there are five of them and they're in a book? If it's individual, how do I fend off four while I fight the fifth? Can I at all? Or do I just keep taking hits until I get around to facing each guy?

6) How do I know what armor they're wearing? Should I just assume that any given opponent is buck naked unless informed otherwise?

7) How many times can my armor absorb 1 hit? Each time I'm struck? Or only the first time?

8) How can I forget physics? If you take away my sense of physics, I have nothing to test my guesses against. I'll end up relying on the GM to play the scene out for me and tell me how I did. Which is what I've always done and am trying to stop.

I'm sure some of these questions sound stupid to you. Ken tends to get all exasperated when I ask him questions. Whatever logic comes so naturally to people who understand how this works, I can't seem to grasp. I'm trying. I also have to stop being afraid that I might exasperate people, and keep pushing until I get it.

So I'm pushing. Sorry. It's only for my own education.

[mahrundl]

OK.

1. A 'side' is one of the groups in a combat. Think if them as teams in the sporting sense (for baseball, say), and you won't be far wrong. I'll use team rather than side for clarity.

2. Melee damage is shared amongst the losing team; that's damage that the team takes, of which the individuals take varying amounts. The losing team chooses who takes what amount.

3. That's correct. Magic, missile and spite damage can affect the winning team, but melee damage does not.

4. Probably the best way to look at it is that the losing team has all of its blows blocked by the winning team, and the winning team manages to land at least one decent (i.e. damaging) blow on the losing team. The Hit Point Total (which is the attack rolled by a team) doesn't mean that the team has dealt that much damage - it's an indication of how effective they were, compared to the other team's Hit Point Total. In your example, my greater total might mean that I deflected your sword strike to the side with my club. That took some of the force out of my blow, but I still managed to bruise your arm badly.

5. Generally, for a solo if there are no rules about non-standard fighting, you (and any allies you might have) should fight the opposition in regular melee combat. You don't fight them one at a time, while the others hit you unimpeded - you fight them all each round. You'd allocate damage evenly amongst them, unless there is something that tells you otherwise. Each opponent will be out of combat (unconscious or dead) when their CON or MR reaches 0; on subsequent turns, you just fight any that are still alive and standing.

6. If no armour is mentioned, they aren't wearing any. They'll be wearing ordinary clothes, or possibly they'll be 'buck naked' as you suggest.

7. Your armour absorbs its rated value each combat round. There are no official rules for armour attrition, so strictly speaking you can keep on fighting indefinitely with full armour protection.

8. OK, don't forget physics. Hopefully these clarifications will help you fit things into a framework that works for you.

These questions aren't stupid. They are pretty fundamental, really - if you don't have answers to them, I can see why you'd be having troubles with combat.

Push away! I'll keep answwering if you keep asking.

[mahrundl]

Oh, I posted my random treasure generator under World Building, if you want to take a look.

[dandelion]

Oh, I think I'm starting to figure this out. Light dawns on marble head.

I can't think of any more questions, but I'll give combat a few more tries with this information in hand and see if anything comes up.

Much gratitude and exaltations. And I shall go look at your generator now.

[mahrundl]

If my explanations get the T&T community someone else who understands the game, that can't be a bad thing. If you do have any more questions, I'll be around.

[mahrundl]

Also, there are further refinements for special situations in combat. However, I figured that they could be left until the basics were sorted out. What I've given you will cover 95% plus of solo combats, I would say, and many face-to-face GM-run combats. If you wish, I'll give you some examples of more unusual situations later, when you're comfortable with the stuff above.

[dandelion]

I'd appreciate that. I can't tell you what kind of time span I'm working on; it might be a while. But hey, you're not ;osing any knowledge, so i'm sure it'll be all right.

[dandelion]

A belated exaltation to you, Gimor. I'm a little spotty when it comes to hitting the exalt button, but you've been very helpful with the jewel generator and encouragement and I'd even prefer to give you something nicer than a little ol' karma point. I don't know what, though.