Troll art

[Ramsen Triton]

Thanks Dandelion - I'm glad my (unintentionally) ego bruising comments were of some help!
Feel free to rip into my artwork any time. ;D

You've definitely got to read 'Watchmen' - It's a great deconstruction of the superhero genre. I actually only read it quite recently myself - I felt a bit embarrassed telling people I had an interest in comics when I'd never read such a landmark book. As you say, I think you owe it to John Higgins too, seeing as you've met him.
Coincidentally, Higgins used to draw for my favourite comic book '2000AD' - the only comic I buy every week without fail. I love '2000AD' because it nearly always has stories that are a little bit different from the norm (i.e. no superheroes) and doesn't have an in-house artistic or writing style like most of the big publishers. It's also the comic that launched a thousand careers - Alan Moore, Brian Bolland, Jamie Hewlett, Simon Bisley, John Higgins, Kevin O'Neill, Dave Gibbons.....the list goes on and on.

Just out of interest Dandelion, are you a fan of Daniel Clowes, Robert Crumb or Harvey Pekar? I've been wanting to read some of their stuff for ages (especially after seeing the excellent 'Ghost World', 'Crumb' and 'American Splendor' movies) and I wondered if there were any books you'd recommend.

Look forward to seeing the completed Orc pic.
Cheers

[dandelion]

I've been told my style has some similarities with Crumb, but unfortunately I'm in the same boat you are - picking up lots of leads on work that might interest me and rarely/never pursuing them.

Part of it is my reluctance to spend money. Part is that I'm overwhelmed at the sheer amount of material out there. Coming in so late in the game, I've been introduced to the comics industry in its entirety, rather than following one particular genre from childhood and gradually expanding over the years.

My interest got piqued by Sandman, as is typical for women I hear. Then I went straight to the obscure indie stuff. But there's so much of that, and I so rarely buy anything, that I can't even say I'm knowledgeable in the indie genres.

Mostly, I just tell my own stories, draw my own ideas, and stifle any urge to feel like a clueless outsider.

[Ramsen Triton]

I've never read Sandman, but I've heard good things about it.
Being a Gaiman fan, you may already know this, but he and artist Dave McKean have just made their first film together - it's called 'Mirrormask'. I've seen a few still shots from it and I have to say it looks like it might be a bit special. It's out fairly soon I think.

I also find the comics scene completely impenetrable - I walk into a comic store and end up leaving empty handed due to confusion. Collected volumes and graphic novels are the way to go I think, but the trouble is, they're horrendously expensive in the UK (I don't know whether it's the same in the US).

I guess the good thing about not having read too many comic books is you can be fairly sure you're ideas are fresh, and you're not subconsciously copying anyone else's work - always a danger in every creative field.
I always remember reading an interview with Paul McCartney where he was explaining how he came to write 'Yesterday'. He said that when he came up with the tune, he was absolutely convinced he'd heard it somewhere before. Even after the release of the song, he said he was paranoid that someone would come forward and sue him for plagiarism.
Sometimes, being a clueless outsider is a good thing.

Changing the subject slightly, what do you all think of Fantasy Art? Do you like images that feature huge, fire-breathing dragons, muscle-bound heroes with large swords and busty heroines wearing tiny outfits? This may sound strange coming from a guy who does fantasy art, but I actually detest 90% of art in this genre. I particularly hate 'erotic' fantasy art - all those glossy airbrushed images of Playboy model types being fondled by monsters/bathing in tranquil lakes/trussed up in bondage gear. Is it great Art, or is it just a load of old hackneyed, immature, sexist rubbish?

Cheers

[dandelion]

I agree that there's some advantage to being clueless. There's also advantage to being knowledgeable. The trick must be to strike a balance. Fortunately, my husband and I do that by being two extremes.

I have head of Mirrormask, and if I don't go to see it (moviegoing is horrendously expensive, especially in my area - and for that matter, yes, graphic novels are picy in the US too) I shall rent it sometime. I never fail to enjoy Gaiman's work. Even better, my husband has procured some of his more obscure writings, like the anthology "Angels and Visitations." Memorable stuff. I recommend it.

Aaaand... on the topic if Fantasy Art... hee. There's a can of worms. My first comment is, "I hate butt-fetish art."

Ever see that? It usually features a woman twisted around so you can see both her butt and her chest, and both are disproportionately large. Bad proportions bug me. Muscles in the wrong places bug me too. I don't understand why more fantasy artists can't take a course in anatomy. Or get a reference book.

I'm fairly immune to the idea of art being created for purposes of erotica. Hey, humans are sexual beings. It's the technical liberties artists run wild with that bothers me. A realistically proportioned, extremely beautiful, nearly naked fairy woman is acceptable.

Dragons are okay... I'm a big fan of monsters, the less mammalian the better, but I tend to favor invertebrates. Physiological accuracy is important there, too, though. Girly things like flowery unicorns don't catch my interest, but I don't object to them, per se. So I guess I enjoy atypical fantasy art best of all, art that doesn't exaggerate to cater to fetishes. And yeah, I know 'hackneyed' when I see it. But there's a lot of good stuff out there. I'm not a creator of much of it - I went though an elf phase years ago but when I started drawing comic books, it ended abruptly. And even then I drew elves reading books or wearing trenchcoats or similar silliness, rather than going for sexual themes. Now my most involved works of art are just comic book covers. Ah well.

[Ramsen Triton]

Loves invertebrates. Had an 'Elf phase'.
Not really things you want to broadcast around are they Dandelion? ;D

"I hate butt-fetish art" - You should get that printed on a T-Shirt.
I know exactly the kind of image you're referring to though. That kind of stuff thinks it's being really erotic and alluring, but it isn't - not to me anyway. If we're talking girlie pin-up art, I still don't think you can beat stuff from the 30's, 40's and 50's - the kind of thing that used to be painted on the side of planes during WWII. Glamorous, sexy, but still classy.

Anatomical inaccuracy bugs me a bit too, I have to say. I know it's fantasy and all, but why do heroes always look like they spend five days a week in the gym lifting weights?
There are only a few fantasy artists I admire that draw that kind of pumped-up, muscle bound hero really well. One of them is Frank Frazetta - his stuff always looks realistic, even though it's slightly exaggerated. Alex Ross is another - he's one of the only comic book artists that I think can make traditional superheroes look believable.

[dandelion]

Hey, I'm quite proud of my fondness for invertebrates - and my familiarity with them. If I were to choose a spirit animal, it might be the siphonophore. Or the nudibranch. Marine biology could've been a career option, if I'd done better at the rigors of school.

And, well, if I can admit to being a female artist, the elf phase goes without saying. I cope.

And it just occured to me to mention fantasy landscapes as something I enjoy immensely. It's hard to find fault with a well-done fantasy landscape. The new set of Magic cards has some fabulous ones. I don't know ass-from-elbow about the game of Magic, but my ogre-mate bought some of the new cards, and they really went all-out on the art this time. It's tech-themed, which you wouldn't expect to be good in terms of beautiful landscapes. But it is.