Boozer
4th Level Troll
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Post by Boozer on Aug 2, 2005 15:38:48 GMT -5
I see them as the hobbit equivalent of Dark Elves (Drow in D&D I think). Evil little buggers!
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verdius
1st Level Troll
Wandering Gamer
Posts: 24
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Post by verdius on Aug 7, 2005 22:08:28 GMT -5
Right, i've always thought of them that way too Boozer. Dark Elves can be described many ways, depending on the system or milieu/world, the GM, but basically they're evil versions of elves, as 'black hobbits' has become the term for evil versions of hobbits. In both cases they imply that the regular version is 'good' as a whole.
I would say that's true, but Mahrundl's post brings up a good point: hobbits are even more good than elves. Yes, it's true by gosh. In the Silmarilion you find that elves have a history of pride and arrogance, and have repeatedly shed the blood of their own kin. They aren't all as noble as we like to make them out. On the other hand, hobbits are. Even humans were highly prone to the evil influence of Melkor in the early days, a fact that carries thru right to the twilight of the Third Age, when the southern barbarians flock to Sauron's banner.
Hobbits are the very soul of all that is good in the world. They just don't have fancy gods and hifeluten banter to toot about it the way we humans like to :-) Perhaps their natural lack of evil relieves them of all that drama we seem to embrace.
On the other hand, freak hobbits could exist, as black hobbits. And i think they're more than hobbits who lack the usual good cheer and penchant for pastoral charm; they're downright evil, nasty, wicked murderers you will never meet in the Shire unless you're good at hunting munsters in the night!
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quoghmyre
7th Level Troll
The Summer Troll
Posts: 1,048
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Post by quoghmyre on Aug 7, 2005 22:57:46 GMT -5
I always thought of Black Hobbits needing a corrupting influence. Normally something that would trick them into evil, or a controlling wizard. Gollum is The Black Hobbit.
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Ahnn Uuh
2nd Level Troll
Me like bunnies. Good with ketchup.
Posts: 98
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Post by Ahnn Uuh on Aug 8, 2005 15:52:18 GMT -5
In the Silmarilion you find that elves have a history of pride and arrogance, and have repeatedly shed the blood of their own kin. They aren't all as noble as we like to make them out. On the other hand, hobbits are. (Warning: violent snippage has occurred.) On the other hand, freak hobbits could exist, as black hobbits. And i think they're more than hobbits who lack the usual good cheer and penchant for pastoral charm; they're downright evil, nasty, wicked murderers you will never meet in the Shire unless you're good at hunting munsters in the night! Verdius, that's three hands.... I'm not sure if hobbits are truly noble or simply very inwardly focussed among their own people. They seem awfully oblivious to the greater happenings around them. I wonder if the reason the Ring didn't affect Bilbo for so long was more that he wasn't really good nor evil, so the ring had nothing to work with. It might have enhanced evil tendencies or corrupted good ones, but what does one do with an entity so uninvolved with the overall scheme of things? I'm not sure the Ring was equipped to deal with a creature so oblivious.... As for the latter part of your post, Verdius, I do think any race has the potential to have a "black" member (or a "white" one, if I may so put it), and your description of them makes a lot of sense to me.
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Post by mahrundl on Aug 8, 2005 18:25:15 GMT -5
Ahnn Uuh,
I think that Bilbo, Frodo and Sam would all qualify as good and probably noble. They all showed pity and mercy at various times, when it would have been safer not to (most of these instances relate to Gollum, of course), Frodo volunteers to walk into the most dangerous place in Middle-Earth to destroy the Ring even though he has no obligation to do so, and Sam assaults what he knows is the orc-filled Tower of Cirith Ungol to rescue Frodo.
Most hobbits aren't really strongly good or strongly evil, like most humans. They have their good and evil tendencies, but they are not as a rule very polarised. They are fairly inwardly focussed, I agree. And that may be why they can resist the ring, rather than their intrinsic good or evil; the Ring corrupts you into doing evil, whereas the hobbits don't *do* much at all outside of themselves. I think that in that sense the ring had nothing to work with.
Mahrundl
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Boozer
4th Level Troll
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Posts: 299
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Post by Boozer on Aug 12, 2005 7:14:34 GMT -5
Nice post Mahrundl - I always enjoy reading your point of view on things; so much thought goes into them. It is no surprise that you are up to 4 Karma
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Post by mahrundl on Aug 13, 2005 2:10:12 GMT -5
Ta muchly, Boozer. I try to put a reasonably detailed case when I can.
Also, I'm a Tolkien geek. Sometimes, it can be a little difficult to shut me up on the subject... ;D
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Boozer
4th Level Troll
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Posts: 299
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Post by Boozer on Aug 23, 2005 3:29:15 GMT -5
Have you managed to pick-up all the LOTR DVDs Mahrundl? We got the 4-disk sets when they came out. There's a LOT of extra stuff on those! Well worth it.
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Post by mahrundl on Aug 23, 2005 4:29:57 GMT -5
Oh, yes, indeedy! In fact, we got the 4 DVD set of 'Fellowship' the day before it officially went on sale, and $10 cheaper than retail price... The day before that, we went out and bought ourselves a DVD player specifically so that we could watch it.
The 4 disk sets are truly wonderful, and not just for the extended versions of the movies. The additional material is so far above what you get on most DVDs it's pretty much in a category all its own.
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quoghmyre
7th Level Troll
The Summer Troll
Posts: 1,048
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Post by quoghmyre on Aug 23, 2005 4:47:35 GMT -5
When it comes to the movies, we went over the top. It did put NZ and Peter Jackson on the map. We went to see each one at the theatre, twice or three times. Purchased the theatre DVDs when they came out, then purchased the Extended DVD versions when they were released. We also went up to Wellington for the Final Premier parade and went to one of the later showings. Have some great "home movie" footage of the parade. Nothing like an idiot jumping up and down screaming to get the cast pointing and laughing. We can edit the sound track out, right? We went to the LOTR exhibit, props and stuff, the dead Sean Bean in the elvish canoe was so freaking realistic. And to round it off the video game and the National Geographic making of DVD. Oh and I think I read the book;-)
After all the other attempts at making LOTR into a movie I wasn't sure it could be do, but I think PJ pulled it off well.
If you haven't seen them, have a watch of his "Meet the Feebles" (I love this movie, I wish I could find it on DVD), "Heavenly Creatures" and while not quite in the same class "The Frighteners" but I don't enjoy M J Fox.
We are on our second set of the books as the first have fallen apart with so many re-reads. I also have a tape of JR reading the riddle scene and some of his poems. The Man in the Moon springs to mind. And I think there one of his son Chris??? reading some of the Silmarillion. I hate moving house. I wonder where they are.
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Boozer
4th Level Troll
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Post by Boozer on Oct 17, 2005 4:38:14 GMT -5
So, who is the mysterious 'pugilist' then, the latest member to join?
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Post by Vin Ahrr Vin on Oct 30, 2005 18:04:24 GMT -5
Vin, I just want to say that I'm glad at least one T&T forum has survived. The Trollwalla is ok, if you don't care about what's gone before. Having some organization to the posts makes older posts on a given topic so much easier to find. It's impossible to follow a discussion on Trollwalla, so there's not really any way to have an ongoing conversation over a period of time about any one particular topic. The Trollbridge makes it easy to come back to a topic whether you've been away for a day, a week, a month, or even longer. Thanks for the kind words. That was certainly my concern at the onset of joining the Trollwalla. I spent a couple hours one night trying to read everything on the Trollwalla and have no idea what percent of the messages I got to or missed. There were no dates or clear way to find anything. The message board just made sense to me. And I, for one, appreciate that you stepped up and took on the task of getting this forum going. I especially like not having to be the admin for the board, as I would have been if Mystic Visions had stuck around. So I'm glad things have worked out the way they have. Kudos for a great job, keep up the good work, and here's to many years' worth of postings accumulating on the Trollbridge for all of Trolldom to enjoy! Visually, I always liked Mystic Visions better and would have supported it more if I hadn't been pumping my energy into the TrollBridge. The TrollBridge appears to be somewhat self-supporting right now, but who knows if that trend will continue or not.
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kopf
3rd Level Troll
Posts: 211
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Post by kopf on Dec 23, 2005 13:44:06 GMT -5
I always thought of Black Hobbits needing a corrupting influence. Normally something that would trick them into evil, or a controlling wizard. Gollum is The Black Hobbit. Wow. Good example of a "black hobbit." Exalts to you.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2005 14:17:59 GMT -5
I like Tolkein as well - but have any of you read Dennis L McKiernans books? I highly reccomend "The Iron Tower Trilogy". I like his dwarves and elves... no hobbits but he has warrows.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2005 15:03:11 GMT -5
ooh I exalt you for knowing my favourite author!
warrows are the short (about 3 ft tall) beings, with jewel hued eyes and pointed ears, good with bow and arrow, loyal and stalwart, peaceful (for the most part) and live in the Land of the Thorns.
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