Recommend a Dungeon for First Level Party?

[majyc]

I was planning on running a friend through a beginning dungeon bash, just to do a test drive of actually using the system (we're using 7.5), but even though I had him roll up 4 characters and with a couple lucky rolls he ended up with a 4th level dwarf warrior and a 2nd level elf wizard, the included GM module "Hot Pursuit" in the 7.5 edition is ridiculously overwhelming. When it says "for up to 5th level characters" it really seems to mean "for 4th to 5th level characters with commensurate magical weapons" He was willing to give it a shot, but I nixed it...there just didn't seem to be any reason to attempt it when one of the first combat encounters is with an MR 200 monster, another 20 MR 20 fighters, and a Wizard. Even if being defeated in the encounter isn't necessarily the end of the adventure, it becomes at best a textbook example of railroading, at worst a TPK.

So I went looking for an alternative. We ended up trying Goblin Crag's 1st level, after I had him add another 2 characters to the party. I like it, and plan to return to it, but it still seems a bit much for a party of beginning delvers. They talked and gambled their way past the first (and probably weakest) set of monsters on the level, but unless I'm mistaken about what they can really take on, it appears they really should have a couple adventures under their belts and have gotten some magic loot before they can stand up to anything on this "easy" level.

So I ask the T&T experts, are there any readily available published dungeons that are really geared towards a party of first level characters? Most of what I find on RPGNow is solo adventures, often for a warrior only. Of course, I can make something up, or try to cut down Goblin's Crag (cutting down Hot Pursuit is too much of a challenge for me...I could just make the encounter's dice and adds mirror the party's, I suppose, but boy does that make the big scorpion weak....), but I'd really like a couple of examples of what T&T players think is "reasonable" before I go off in my own direction.

[koraq]

T&T usually is very grim and deadly, as you've found out! It wouldn't surprise me if what you've found is considered starting level stuff!

I used this: web.ukonline.co.uk/angora/phabos.htm dungeon for a demo game at a local game store. It worked fairly well for starting characters if they are careful and stay on first level!!

[majyc]

There's grim and deadly, and there's mathematically impossible for the party to win a single round of combat....ya know?

And the Tomb of Phabos looks good. MR 40 and 80 monsters look a lot more reasonable to me than MR 200...

[machfront]

I almost never used published adventures, and we don't really dig on dungeons either... But, yes, Tomb of Phabos does seem to fit the bill.

Creatures of MR15 to MR80 is just fine (depending on how many of each type there are of course, as well as special abilities).

If I were of a mind, I'd probably seek out some small, one-session adventures for any other system and just change those big stat blocks to an MR of whatever I wanted. Saving Throws, skill checks, tests, etc. become an SR of whatever I want. Done.

Things like Ruins of Ramat from Brave Halfling Publishing or the sample dungeon in the back of the D&D Holmes Basic "blue book" or the sample/into adventure in the back of Labyrinth Lord or The Haunted Keep is a good beginning adventure (it's available at Dragonsfoot). Skathros has some really cool quick and ready-to-go adventures on his humble but cool lil T&T site HERE.
There's loads of beginning adventures for loads of systems out there that are available for free download. Take a gander at websites for Castles & Crusades, Savage Worlds, Dark City Games' free adventures for their Legends of the Ancient World (a lite update of The Fantasy Trip) are pretty cool. And like I said, it's easy as heck to convert any of them over to T&T.

[majyc]

I almost never run published adventures, but I like to get a look at them with new systems in order to get a feel for how the system is used, what kind of things are viewed as reasonable challenges etc.

[machfront]

Oh, yeah, I do that myself, so I get ya.

In that case, you should definitely pick up a good number of the solos. They're good for just that purpose. They really opened my eyes to understanding the T&T way of things.

[ragnorakk]

You could just impose a cap on the numbers occurring/MRs that you feel are overwhelming - lay off half of the 20 warriors, give the MR 200 the plague (MR 100), things like that.

I don't have any experience running 7.5, but I don't think there's been a radical establishment of a real baseline or metric for fair fights. I just remember when I ran a lot of 5th ed that if something was utterly overwhelming (and I didn't like that ) I'd change them to something tough (a few more dice, comparable adds) instead of [glow=red,2,300]AUTOKILL![/glow]

You can really tailor encounters with T&T based on the party's CBT range

[apeloverage]

You could try my dungeon generator: www.apolitical.info/webgame/dungeon

[Hogscape]

Dungeon of the Rat!
From a back issue of the Hobbit Hole but also floating around here somewhere I'm sure?

[majyc]

Mar 23, 2009 22:12:35 GMT -5 apeloverage said:

You could try my dungeon generator: www.apolitical.info/webgame/dungeon

It's a nice generator, but I wish it had an option for using standard monsters without renaming them. The extra step of translating every reference to Megalothol or Argautomian back into Troll or Ghoul is painful.

[apeloverage]

You can copy it into Word and then do edit/replace.

EDIT: I'll try and change this ASAP.

[Mhegrrrim Skulltosser]

Mar 23, 2009 20:31:12 GMT -5 ragnorakk said:

You could just impose a cap on the numbers occurring/MRs that you feel are overwhelming - lay off half of the 20 warriors, give the MR 200 the plague (MR 100), things like that.

I don't have any experience running 7.5, but I don't think there's been a radical establishment of a real baseline or metric for fair fights. I just remember when I ran a lot of 5th ed that if something was utterly overwhelming (and I didn't like that ) I'd change them to something tough (a few more dice, comparable adds) instead of [glow=red,2,300]AUTOKILL![/glow]

You can really tailor encounters with T&T based on the party's CBT range

I'll second ragnorakk's thoughts. The best way to play is to determine fight levels for your players. Easy fights should have an average HPT -20 of the PCs. Average fights should generate the same HPT. Challenging fights get +10. Hard fights should be HPT + 50.

If you find a fun adventure and it is too tough, power it down. If the PCs just waltz through it, adjust midstream and power it up a little.

Don't forget to let PCs come up with strategies and tactics. Reward good ideas with a saving roll to determine success, and then let the success have a meaningful impact.

Example from my own games:
(What I did wrong)
My PCs were camping for the evening when a squad of goblins attacked. The PCs were outnumbered by 50%. One PC tried to stab a goblin in the throat. I asked for a L2SR on DEX, which he barely made. I gave the player a +5 bonus to his HPT. The result was the team caused 1 pt damage to the goblins (before the 3 magic users' TTYF direct damage).

(What I should have done)
One PC tried to stab a goblin in the throat. I asked for a L2SR on DEX, which he barely made. The goblin collapses unable to breath properly bleeding profusely and unable to fight. The goblin would probably bleed out.

[machfront]

Mar 25, 2009 21:52:01 GMT -5 Mhegrrrim Skulltosser said:

I'll second ragnorakk's thoughts. The best way to play is to determine fight levels for your players. Easy fights should have an average HPT -20 of the PCs. Average fights should generate the same HPT. Challenging fights get +10. Hard fights should be HPT + 50.

If you find a fun adventure and it is too tough, power it down. If the PCs just waltz through it, adjust midstream and power it up a little.

Don't forget to let PCs come up with strategies and tactics. Reward good ideas with a saving roll to determine success, and then let the success have a meaningful impact.

Agreed. But I'd like to add that I think it's still worthwhile to every now and then have a challenge/monster that's just plain to tough to deal with. Sometimes, you just have to run away. Even Conan did so (the beginning of the story, Red Nails).

Mar 25, 2009 21:52:01 GMT -5 Mhegrrrim Skulltosser said:

Example from my own games:
(What I did wrong)
My PCs were camping for the evening when a squad of goblins attacked. The PCs were outnumbered by 50%. One PC tried to stab a goblin in the throat. I asked for a L2SR on DEX, which he barely made. I gave the player a +5 bonus to his HPT. The result was the team caused 1 pt damage to the goblins (before the 3 magic users' TTYF direct damage).

(What I should have done)
One PC tried to stab a goblin in the throat. I asked for a L2SR on DEX, which he barely made. The goblin collapses unable to breath properly bleeding profusely and unable to fight. The goblin would probably bleed out.

It's things like this that cause me to prefer to do all combats on a mano y mano basis. I just don't like the group combat thing.

Maybe it's just me, but I find it much easier to deal with things such as you noted when I'm dealing with one PC vs. one or even just a few of the, say, twenty goblins that have attacked the group.

[apeloverage]

Mar 24, 2009 7:42:08 GMT -5 majyc said:

It's a nice generator, but I wish it had an option for using standard monsters without renaming them. The extra step of translating every reference to Megalothol or Argautomian back into Troll or Ghoul is painful.

OK, it's done - it now gives the standard name every time they're mentioned.

[Hogscape]

Dungeon of the Right is right here: hogscape.googlepages.com/DotR-Final.pdf

Very useful for nubies.