quoghmyre
7th Level Troll
The Summer Troll
Posts: 1,048
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Post by quoghmyre on Nov 13, 2009 0:06:02 GMT -5
I waver on this question and would like to be more consistent what are your thoughts?
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burke
4th Level Troll
Posts: 393
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Post by burke on Nov 13, 2009 4:47:30 GMT -5
I think the combat dice rolls should be made in the open, which pretty much reveals the monsters SR. But special abilities will of course only be revealed when they are used.
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Nov 13, 2009 6:09:33 GMT -5
While I agree with Burke that combat rolls should be made in the open (in any rpg really), it is trickier in T&T since it could reveal what the players shouldn't know. However, there's too much else going on for the players to really bother with attempting to 'retro-engineer' the MR from dice thrown. Besides, there are times when I decide on a dice and adds combo that has absolutely nothing to do with any MR. While players should trust their GM, rolling in the open solidifies that trust and even helps the GM stay honest himself. 'Course, in my games, players would eventually know the danger/lethality of a creature if they've had experience with it/them before, because I don't do the arbitrary MRs of 'one orc is MR10 and another orc is MR150' kind of silliness.
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Post by zedofan on Nov 13, 2009 8:39:06 GMT -5
For my part I try to give the players a fair description of the monster. Veteran players know the range of most critters, newer players I would be inclined to tell the MR. If it's a rarer beast I am going to do what will best give the adventurers an opportunity to make an informed choice.
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koraq
4th Level Troll
Posts: 355
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Post by koraq on Nov 13, 2009 9:52:06 GMT -5
I describe the monster, and then I roll the dice in the open. If they want to make a SR or cast a spell to determine MR they can.
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quoghmyre
7th Level Troll
The Summer Troll
Posts: 1,048
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Post by quoghmyre on Nov 13, 2009 15:57:01 GMT -5
Ah, so the use of MRs and the real time seeing you rolling "that" number of dice gives your players time to formulate a plan. So if they saw you rolling 100s of dice they would be OMG run away.
Thanks for you ideas. Your comments on my situation would be muchly appreciated. I use a computer program (still in beta) to manage my Monsters, so while I know the dice and adds, the players don't get to see anything rolling, also I use personalised Monsters so they are overall weaker in dice and more dependent on the adds.
Personally as a GM it was the one area that I found really slowed my game down, the players sitting and waiting while I rolled fists full of dice and tallied them up. And yes after a while I'd just roll a tenth of the dice and multiply by 10, or use the average, all sorts of tricks. But still the players would be sitting there, getting bored while they waited for me. Now I can field a hundred Gobins and have time to deal with all the SR's and keep the action narration going. But the down side is that the players don't see the number of dice, hmmm.
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order99
7th Level Troll
Coffee-fueled Carrion That Walks Like a Man
Posts: 1,039
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Post by order99 on Nov 13, 2009 23:58:13 GMT -5
I tend to roll behind the screen, but I give them copious hints in my descriptions-ie "he blocks your every blow and sneers as he returns a devastating strike" or "you fight skillfully but the hit-and-run Wolfpack tactics of your foes begin a wearing down of your defenses" or "the novice slips and falls fending you off but his comrade deflects your blade just enough to turn your decapitating stroke into a nasty slice"-that sort of thing. Of course, I love it when my players think they are outmatched...that's when the mad cunning schemes come out and the insane SR stunts come into play, and I get to put on the Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon soundtrack and headbang. It's why we play, really...
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Nov 14, 2009 6:36:13 GMT -5
I also wholeheartedly agree with order99. It's the descriptions of the opponent and their attitudes, behaviors, actions and tactics that allow for informed decisions. It shouldn't be the dice or knowing the MR that does so.
What I mean is...players should be able to make informed decisions by way of what their characters know and not by what they as 'just' players know, and that is (or can or should be) what tests players skill rather than vacuous game skill.
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Post by mahrundl on Nov 15, 2009 2:13:30 GMT -5
Yep, what order99 said.
Well, that's the ideal, anyway. I'm not sure that I actually do it that way all the time, but it's where I'd like the atmosphere to be.
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Post by jongjungbu on Nov 15, 2009 9:04:46 GMT -5
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koraq
4th Level Troll
Posts: 355
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Post by koraq on Nov 16, 2009 5:46:44 GMT -5
No, I don't use the amount of dice to give my players information, that comes beforehand verbally. But, sure it will give them some info since I roll in the open.
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order99
7th Level Troll
Coffee-fueled Carrion That Walks Like a Man
Posts: 1,039
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Post by order99 on Nov 17, 2009 21:17:26 GMT -5
I used to roll in the open too, but one dark and stormy night... Players-three Goblins? CHAARGE!! Me-(empties every D6 he owns onto table) Players-AAAUUUGH!!! Run for your LIVES! ( party flees Goblins and jumps headlong into chute at the other end of the tunnel) Me-okay, i'm done sorting by color and style...the Reds will be for Combat, the Yellow Skull dice are for SRs, the Blues are for Traps and Hazards and the Greens will be in case you need new PCs and- Uh, guys? Why did you all just dive into the castle's Midden Chute? I hope you all left your torches upstairs, this Midden hasn't been mucked in years- Player2-OhGodtheFlamingSwordBobsheaththeFlaming Me-SIGH. Gimme a LK SR...Whoah. Okay, I didn't think we'd need THAT many Green dice at once, you'll have to take turns... ...and that's how we all agreed to use a GM screen in the future.
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Hogscape
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
It's not the years, it's the mileage.
Posts: 2,126
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Post by Hogscape on Nov 18, 2009 0:16:39 GMT -5
*snort* I liked that story Order99... Glad to see you back, you've been quiet for a while. Cop this exalt for the giggle.
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Nov 18, 2009 6:17:42 GMT -5
Cop this exalt for the giggle. I'm convinced this means something completely different where you're from.
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Post by ragnorakk on Nov 18, 2009 15:58:18 GMT -5
I got used to rolling attacks behind a screen early, but after the players got good at estimating by the sound of the numbers of dice being rolled, I'd throw in dummy polyhedrals and ignore them in the tally.
But characters sometimes SR'ed if they had fore knowledge or fore warning or thought they were particularly canny or insightful or something.
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