Newbie With A Question

[Deleted]

Hi. The whole mess with "that company" actually inspired me to pick up T&T again - and to join the Trollbridge messageboard. I am also tinkering with my houseruled version of T&T.

With that in mind, I have a question. How do you handle evenly-matched combatants? I know about spite damage, but that particular mechanic is not terribly inspiring for me. For the T&T veterans here, how do you handle this situation?

Tony Roberson

[quoghmyre]

Saving Rolls!

They can be called for at any time, and for any reason. Especially during combat. A warrior might ask that all his damage goes on one foe, or a rogue might try and stab the enemy in the back.

Remember, the core of T&T is dialogue that leads to Saving Rolls, not "rules".

Player: "Ezral my warrior wants to try do (any activity)"
GM: Decides just how difficult that activity would be at that time, "Level (X) SR on Strength"
Player: Rolls Dices, take APs and roleplays the result

I reprint the SR levels so everyone has there own copy.

[zanshin]

What quoghmyre said, and just to add that there are loads of tips within the 'Arena of Khazan' solo for treating combat in varying ways, covering and using tactics and the like.

I wouldn't just dismiss spite damage though - its an elegant mechanic, especially in concert with Monster Rating - it lets you overmatch the delvers, who know that (along with magic of course) spite can start the death spiral rolling.

[quoghmyre]

I can't stress this enough ;D This SR system is the heart of T&T, and it's amazingly versatile.
Another example, the party arrives at a wall they want to climb over it.
"At this point it would be a Level 8 SR to scale the wall" OMG that's impossible,
"We look for a better place to climb over." After 1 turn, a WM check.
"Level 1 SR on LK for the Rogues" those that make the roll think this is a good spot to climb the wall.
"This looks like a Level 1 climb from here, So it will be a Lvl 1 SR on LK or DEX or ST" let the players choose, the Rogues just use their luck to find the holds and pick the right route, the wizard uses his dexterity to climb the wall, and the warrior power lifts his way up.

I give them as many tries as they need, but each attempt is a turn and check for a wandering monster each turn. If any get a automatic fail, less than 5, then things get interesting.
"Opps you fall off the wall, and crash to the floor, that will be 1d6 damage, amour counts."
but that could be
"You fall" Player: "I grab for a ledge"
"You try and grab a ledge, Level 3 SR on Luck, no? The floor is covered with large rocks and they do 2d6 damage and armour doesn't help."
no rules! just more SRs.

If you're used to games where this is laid out for you, with rules and charts, it will be strange but once you get into the flow of it you'll find it so liberating.

Oh and most of the comedic action comes from failed SRs, never let a failed SR go unnoticed, and any roll below 5 must be followed up on! Either with another roll or damage of some kind. Or not, it's the GMs call ;D

[hrrrothgarrr]

I agree. SRs are a great way to add colour and special effects. With evenly matched opponents this is especially true and can save a long session of dice rolling.

Instead of endless back and forth with a few points being scored, but then soaked by armour yielding no et resul, or attrition by spite damage, you can get "Thoreld will swing his Khopesh at the tendons behind Weren's knee." GM: Make a level 2 SR on DEX. Sucess!! Wereld goes to one knee a his leg buckles. Now the contest is far from even...

Missed SRs need not lead to instant death either. If rolling when climbing, failure can lead to a blocked route, or the need for more SRs to catch yourself before a fall, etc..

[jongjungbu]

There's also the 5.5 extra rules in the back about stamina during fights, and how the longer the fight the more worn down the fighters get and become less effective. Something along those lines. I don't use that, and I know I'm not being very specific either, but seeing as I don't use that particular houserule of Ken's, I don't remember exactly how it goes. I just happen to think of it now. :-P

[mgtremaine]

As quoghmyre points out SR are the key to the flexibility of the combat system. Also heads up playing is required when players get into situations they can not handle. Although the rules are vague the ideas are there the best example is in the combat example page 58 [at least in my book]

Fourth Combat Turn:
Rethe and Kara are out of combat. Higley must fight Fleabiter, and must prevent the ogre from doing damage to Rethe who is unconscious but not dead....

Higley's player states that he wants to lead the ogre away from the elf's collapsed body, so that she does not have to take any side-blows from the ogre if Higley cannot beat him on subsequent turns.

The GM feels an IQ saving roll made by the ogre should determine this

That right there sums it all up. Let the players try whatever they need to use SR to resolve it in a fair way. Tactics are are imporant, another simple example is when 1 PC walks into a room of 20 goblins. No way he/she can fight them all so find a place to bottleneck them and fight 2-3 at a time....

-Mike

[machfront]

There's very little of substance I can add here other than echoing what the others have stated.
First, spite damage is a good thing. It works.
Second, as has been said: Combat Saving Rolls.

Be aware, though that when accepting (as a GM) SRs made in combat, that there's a cost or significant risk attached to failing the SR. Whether you let the player know, or let them realize through narrative concerning the character, as long as they know that it's a risk, as it should be. Otherwise...what's the point of making use of the standard combat system and just always defaulting to SRs, right?

Also, I do have to disagree with a theme and sentiment in general regarding SRs.

T&T is not a dice game. It's a role-playing game, obviously. Even with the versatility and ease-of-use of the SR mechanic, don't rely on it too often. It should be for important and pivotal things.
All the time in the world and wanna open the lock? Don't sweat it. Who needs dice for that? Borrriing.

Being chased down a corridor and come to a locked door? Now's the time for an SR. Just as a billion rpg rules say concerning whatever skill or resolution mechanic may be on display...don't worry about it unless there's a moment of danger or a reasonable question of success and/or failure would carry a heavy penalty.

Even level 3 and level 4 SRs are really difficult for characters who aren't pretty high level. Keep ramping up the SR levels and there's no reason whatsoever to be a high-level character, dig? Then you won't have the silliness that is: "Remember when you were first level and really, really well-made quality locks were the equivalent of a Level 2 SR to pick?....yeah....well, now that you guys are much more experienced and better...those very same locks are now the equivalent of a Level 8 SR to pick. Sorry."


But, yes, combat SRs.
SRs are basically the quick and easy way to do combat stunts or feats or whatever else you may call them or wish to think of them as.

[quoghmyre]

We just love to agree, as we differ and that's an important part of T&T, we don't subscribe to a set game world. The area where characters adventure in my world is called The Southern Most Realm and it's a world of heroic fantasy, others use T&T with different styles and flavours.
In TSMR, easy is Level 1, Level 5 is at the limit of current human abilities, over that its Heroic Fantasy. You as a GM need to set your own scale and then try to be consistent.

Some players like the SR dice game, I think mine see it as a way to get away with doing crazy st!t. Especially when they get a high stat, high ST think Conan and holding up the roof of a cave-in, high CHR and dancing naked on the bartop to set a diversion for the local patrol. She caused a diversion for the whole town. My players would be offended if they didn't get to roll a SR, that's why I use a house-rule from MSPE called a Zero Level Saving Roll, it's my way of saying that is just mundane.

But as pointed out this is Roleplay so don't get hung up on the die rolling and as GM you can override all that dice rolling and just tell'em how it is. The call is yours.

[Hogscape]

Hey, something good came of the "that company" mess... We got a new member!
Huzzah!

[kopf]

Nov 23, 2009 3:30:59 GMT -5 Hogscape said:

Hey, something good came of the "that company" mess... We got a new member!
Huzzah!

Think about what your're saying

"Oh yeah it took "that company" to get a new member here."

Speaks volumes of its long-time members without "that company" affiliation. Boy what a bunch of slackers.
As far as I am concerned, this sort of attitude is why no females, besides the wives of other men, bother around here. Vainglorius proclamations over what should be nutured.


The big comma is what was edited in.

[quoghmyre]

steady there

The whole mess with "that company" actually inspired me to pick up T&T again - and to join the Trollbridge messageboard.

read the first post, that's what Hogs post was referencing.

Hazzah, there are some positive things coming out of all this attention, my art has had so much more exposure, both Trollhalla and here have had a truckload of visitors and new members.

This isn't a good situation, it's a good by product. ;D

I'm sure we are missing something in the translations here

[machfront]

While we have had a small surge in members and guests over the past number of days, the membership has grown quite steadily at a more rapid pace over the last year or so than it had previously, so we were growing long before the recent unpleasantness.

[ragnorakk]

Nov 22, 2009 16:20:18 GMT -5 @anthonyroberson said:

How do you handle evenly-matched combatants? I know about spite damage, but that particular mechanic is not terribly inspiring for me. For the T&T veterans here, how do you handle this situation?

Tony Roberson

Couple of different ways, but namely make evenly matched combatants uneven. That's what players are trying to do by coming up with SR actions in combat - so if a combat stagnates (which in my experience is not-very common at all) and the player does nothing to change the situation, have the monster/opponent try something. If it's successful, and the character lives (!), they will hopefully have been taught a lesson (the hard way).