a T&T connection

[skathros]

well, it seems that there's a T&T connection to another RPG that i consider really great...Risus, by S. John Ross

www.io.com/~sjohn/faq.htm#Section%20A1:%20Risus

The combat mechanic itself comes from what is possibly the most influential RPG design of all time, Ken St. Andre's moldy-oldie, Tunnels & Trolls. But while half the other roleplaying games on earth adopted T&T's ideas like quantified Luck, spells that drain points of energy, and armor that reduces damage (before T&T, all we had was the D&D method where armor made you hard to hit!), Risus adopts a less-influential system: T&T combat, where piles of dice reduce one another until a victor emerges. My piles of dice are smaller (and the combat system was broadened to include all kinds of non-physical conflicts), but T&T still simmers warmly at the core of it. This allowed me to avoid the bookkeeping of "hit points" while still retaining the tight-in-the-gut feeling of losing them, another feature I'm happy with.

[Hogscape]

Excellent quote Skathros. I'm also a big Risus fan. I put together a basic Discworld Risus a little while ago and I'm slowly converting it to T&T which I think would be a good home for Pratchett's wonderful creations!

[Boozer]

If any RPG was suited to Pratchett's Discworld, it would have to be T&T. There's just no arguement IMHO.

[skathros]

Funny, Risus, like T&T, sort of snuck up on this old grognard I was taken aback by how meny T&Tisms are common place in todays RPGs; "spells that drain points of energy, and armor that reduces damage ". How did i ever overlook the greatness that is T&T?

[Hogscape]

Yes, T&T was truely ground breaking, I don't really know why it never received the universal kudos it so richly deserves!

[Vin Ahrr Vin]

I suspect that much of the lack of publicity is a direct offshoot of Khenn's attitude toward life.

When the D&D folks got underway, it seems like the first thing they did was to quit their "day jobs" and become full time game designers. They cranked out products by the boatload and had to keep selling new product in order to pay the bills. As more and more people got onboard, DRAGON got more massive and lots of significant rules changes occured until the game has evolved into the monster that it is today.

T&T has always been the common-man's game and never took itself as seriously as D&D. A few modules, a couple issues of a magazine, new editions that are just minor tweaks of old editions, etc. Once you learn one T&T edition, you have a decent handle on them all. I don't get a sense of "publish or perish" with T&T.

[Hogscape]

I'm sure you're right and I suppose our beloved T&T would be avery different beast today had it become a corporate juggernaught like D&D. Plus Gygax got booted out of his own company, that's not going to happen to Ken! No company, no money, no boot!

T&T is the 'Apple computer' or 'Betamax' of the gaming world; better than the competition but not on the radar!

[skathros]

Vin, i wonder if this will turn out to be a hinderance to T&T's growth in todays RPG world. The format in which 7E was presented in unusual (although it didn't stop me from buying it, i don't suppose the majority of todays RPGers are like me), and the rules therein are "loose". Personally and IMHO, i think a rule book a la C&C Players Handbook, hard cover, containing all the rules (those in the main RB, the monster book, the CD, and even the alternat RB by FDP), and at a nice price, would have had a greater appeal.
T&T can count on me to buy all the T&T stuff they will but out, but they wont make money on me alone. The masses, that's what should be aimed for!

That said, for me T&T is my poison of choice at the moment, and a great poison it is. So here's to it's continued growth and prosperity!

[order99]

Truth to tell, I don't think the unusual format WAS for the masses...something like that seems tailor-made for established fans of T&T. Come to think of it, that would explain the bare-bones presentation of the rules and the alternate rules booklet-it's almost as if the authors expected the consumer to already have a base familiarity with some form of the rules.
I personally believe the 5.5 softcover(the large one with the box-cover art, extra art inside, less than $20 if memory serves) was Flying Buffalo's best chance to reach the mainstream. A good PC/Mac license would have been nice as well...something to go head to head with the SSI stuff and early Baldur's gate.

[skathros]

order99 said:

I personally believe the 5.5 softcover(the large one with the box-cover art, extra art inside, less than $20 if memory serves) was Flying Buffalo's best chance to reach the mainstream. .

Okay, that does it! I'm ordering 5.5! Now if only i can navigate that maze that is FBI's website (it really is a tad jumbled over there).

[mahrundl]

My 2 cp worth:

7th edition is good. It has many new and interesting ideas, and is far superior to many other game systems currently in print. There are a few omissions, contradictions and problems, but it is still a very playable and fun game regardless.

5th / 5.5th edition, however, is a timeless classic. The mix of just enough detail, off-beat humour and delightful artwork makes it a book I could re-read many times even if I wasn't going to play the game. When you add to that the very playable rules, including the great saving roll system, I expect to keep playing T&T for many years to come. I'm not saying that 5th / 5.5th is perfect though; if it was, then 7th edition would not have been needed. And we would have missed out on Talents, Kremm resistance, Spite damage* and Specialists.

I guess my point is, 5th edition will probably always be my preferred edition. So go forth, Skathros, and purchase it at: www.flyingbuffalo.com/tandt.htm

* OK, 5.5 has Spite damage. But not the other stuff...

[WSmith]

I just ordered the 5.5 summer special #1 from ebay yesterday for $33 including shipping. I cannot wait to get it.

[mahrundl]

Those summer specials are great for feeding your addiction.

[skathros]

question. are all the rulebooks for sale over at FBI version 5.5? I was thinking of ordering this

TUNNELS & TROLLS BOXED SET:

(To see a color picture of the box set, and black & white gifs of the solo adventure covers, click here.

Contains everything you’ll need to play, and more:

T&T Rulebook: easy to understand, filled with in-depth examples. Everything you’ll need to know to play T&T, including Combat, Magic, Weapons & Armor Charts, and Monsters, plus Elaborations, Weapons Glossary, Index, and Trollstone Caverns (an introductory game master adventure).

The pocket version of City of Terrors: A T&T adventure that you can play by yourself- because in place of a game master, the BOOK directs you through the adventure by offering written options.

Castle Ward: a gamemaster adventure, easy for a new GM to moderate. A nearly deserted castle guards the entrance to a monster stronghold.

Player Character Pack: 10 T&T characters to get you started, all completely attributed and equipped.

Three six-sided dice (games sold outside the US may not contain dice).

Boxed set: (Includes all the above) - $24.95

If i do, will i be getting version 5.5 of the rules?

forgot the link: www.flyingbuffalo.com/tandt.htm

[oli]

I reckon you will be getting v5.5 from Flying Buffalo because that's exactly the package I got from them.

Probably worth a quick email to FBuffalo to confirm that it's not the Fiery Dragon v.7 though.

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I've just ordered the MS&PE pack and have just had an email to say it's on its way. I love feeling excited