derv
4th Level Troll
Posts: 335
|
Post by derv on Sept 8, 2012 10:36:05 GMT -5
Ken recently wrote a piece on the Outer Sanctum suggesting everyone needs to create their own unique Trollworld and that there really isn't any hard-fast setting. Things come to fruition over time and through last minute inspiration as well. I think this is his general feelings about T&T as a whole.
Being someone who prefers old school gaming, I can appreciate this approach of DIY. But, it seems there is a common desire in gaming circles to have some thing "official" or "sanctioned". The latter is what I gather people are talking about when they mention "support". I wonder why this is? What's your thoughts?
|
|
zendog
4th Level Troll
Posts: 250
|
Post by zendog on Sept 8, 2012 15:01:38 GMT -5
I don't think a setting even has to be official, but having a setting does help. Back in the day most games had iconic settings. Traveller had the Spinward Marches, Runequest had Glorantha, and D&D had several: Blackmoor, Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, and my favourite Judge's Guild's Wilderlands.
A lot of referees prefer to create their own setting, but some players and groups seem to like the iconic settings. They lend a sense of community and link groups together with a shared history. I always like meeting and talking to peeps from other groups that played in the Wilderlands back in the day, or the City of Carse, or classic dungeons like Keep on the Borderlands, Apple Lane, Pavis, and of course Dungeon of the Bear.
T&T had the solos which I guess is our little communities shared history, but I can't help thinking a setting or two would have done wonders for the game.
Personally back in the day I'd have loved a T&T setting, especially a good City of Khazan. These days I'm more into the DIY approach, in fact I find it easier to write up and run my own stuff, than to read, remember, and run something published.
|
|
|
Post by grrraall on Sept 8, 2012 15:14:39 GMT -5
I don't think a setting even has to be official, but having a setting does help. Back in the day most games had iconic settings. Traveller had the Spinward Marches, Runequest had Glorantha, and D&D had several: Blackmoor, Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, and my favourite Judge's Guild's Wilderlands. A lot of referees prefer to create their own setting, but some players and groups seem to like the iconic settings. They lend a sense of community and link groups together with a shared history. I always like meeting and talking to peeps from other groups that played in the Wilderlands back in the day, or the City of Carse, or classic dungeons like Keep on the Borderlands, Apple Lane, Pavis, and of course Dungeon of the Bear. T&T had the solos which I guess is our little communities shared history, but I can't help thinking a setting or two would have done wonders for the game. So do I. As you say, iconic settings lend a sense of community and link groups together with a shared history. I also played the Crusaders of Khazan computer game and enjoyed it very much. It had a beautiful map, largely based on Liz Danforth's map of Lands Explored, which itself is based on material provided by Bear Peters, Ken St. Andre, and Mike Stackpole. The PC game relies a lot on the solitaire adventures published by Flying Buffalo Inc for T&T. So, quite logically, it has become the basic setting for all my T&T games. And the same goes for the people I play with. That setting provides us with a basis, a set of shared information about the world we play in, but we are still free to create and invent a great deal. It's more a catalyst than a hindrance. I know for sure that the French players are craving for a T&T setting
|
|
derv
4th Level Troll
Posts: 335
|
Post by derv on Sept 8, 2012 17:25:15 GMT -5
I think you guys are right. A setting does have a way of pulling a game together. It's like painting with a broad brush that gives color to all the other material you use.
Still, there must be more to it then just settings which people are looking for. Maybe its quantity of material being produced?
|
|
zendog
4th Level Troll
Posts: 250
|
Post by zendog on Sept 9, 2012 6:21:38 GMT -5
I know for sure that the French players are craving for a T&T setting What sort of setting are the French players craving? Something standard and easily recognisable as trad T&T setting, something more unique, or exotic, or are they just desperate for any setting? I've been toying with a few ideas, one thing I'd like to try is combining elements of a sandbox setting, with JG style hexcrawl exploration, and some Adventure path/Savage Worlds Plot Point style arcs.
|
|
zendog
4th Level Troll
Posts: 250
|
Post by zendog on Sept 9, 2012 6:25:17 GMT -5
Still, there must be more to it then just settings which people are looking for. Maybe its quantity of material being produced? Well there does seem to be a subset of gamers who think that if a game isn't churning out a constant stream of adventures, settings, and supplements then it's a 'dead game line.' Personally I don't get that, all I need is a rule book, dice, pencils, paper, and players and I'm good for years. On the other hand it is kinda good to see a game you love keep up a profile and release some quality product on a semi-regular basis.
|
|
|
Post by wilowisp on Sept 9, 2012 7:48:15 GMT -5
When I got into T&T, I was looking for a game which had the following qualities:
1. No clerical PC class. 2. No "we live to serve the gods!" stuff. 3. No "God does not exist" stuff (or its variants). 4. Simple and elegant dice mechanics. Nothing complex. 5. NO required (or fan expected) setting. 6. A good skill system . 7. A "I can be anything I want to be" approach to PC characters 8 NO kow-towing to the concept of "game balance".
T&T 5.5e gave me all that. Trollworld is nice, but I don't want it or any other setting thrust on me. That was the principle reason I picked T&T over WHFRP.
|
|
zendog
4th Level Troll
Posts: 250
|
Post by zendog on Sept 9, 2012 9:10:31 GMT -5
Trollworld is nice, but I don't want it or any other setting thrust on me. That was the principle reason I picked T&T over WHFRP. Well as T&T has no real built in setting with the rules (other than a few glimpses, hints, and teases of Ralph) it would be literally impossible for you to have a setting thrust upon you.
|
|
gwindel
4th Level Troll
-Spirituality is a crime against Humanity-
Posts: 252
|
Post by gwindel on Sept 9, 2012 12:07:22 GMT -5
When I got into T&T, I was looking for a game which had the following qualities: 1. No clerical PC class. 2. No "we live to serve the gods!" stuff. 3. No "God does not exist" stuff (or its variants). 1 and 2 seems a little in contradiction with 3. If your world has gods (or god), it seems quite logical that there should be clerics and that peoples (even non clerics) should take care not to make anything that could anger them (and on the other hand, make things that could give you their (its) blessing).....
|
|
|
Post by grrraall on Sept 9, 2012 12:34:28 GMT -5
I know for sure that the French players are craving for a T&T setting What sort of setting are the French players craving? Something standard and easily recognisable as trad T&T setting, something more unique, or exotic, or are they just desperate for any setting? I've been toying with a few ideas, one thing I'd like to try is combining elements of a sandbox setting, with JG style hexcrawl exploration, and some Adventure path/Savage Worlds Plot Point style arcs. The lack of a campaign setting for Tunnels & Trolls is seen by many French players as a drawback. Those who know the game largely see it as a great, but "empty" system. That is why some players I know use the T&T system combined with a campaign setting like Glorantha, Discworld, etc. I, for one, am very fond of the Empire of Khazan, the isle of Phoron, and such, probably because I both played the Crusaders of Khazan computer game and the T&T solitaire and GM adventures. Sure, my friends and I have also played in other settings. We played "generic" adventures (those were not meant for any specific RPG), Runequest or D&D modules, and adapted them to T&T. We also invented our own scenarios, of course. Trollworld is optional, sure, but I would take that option and would like that world to be a little more fleshed out. The kind of setting that has already been described in broad terms by Ken should appeal to the French gamers: a classic, med-fan setting, but with inter-dimensional portals, SF elements (Zweetz), gun powder and poisons, a renaissance Gull, naga jungles, an Empire dominated by monsters, free human cities, etc. Once you have a general setting, you are free to use it or not, but I still think that it's important that T&T have its own, unique setting.
|
|
derv
4th Level Troll
Posts: 335
|
Post by derv on Sept 9, 2012 12:44:10 GMT -5
When I read Terry Pratchett's "The Color of Magic", I thought Discworld would make a marvelous setting for T&T. The only problem, which will be found in the back of his books, is "There are no maps, you can't map a sense of humor".
grrraall, I wonder if a module/setting like Keep on the Boarderlands (Zendog mentioned it above) wouldn't appeal to your French audience. It's kind of the best of both worlds. It's a small setting in a broader world that is easily expandable. It would need a little more history added to it, but each GM could make it his own.
|
|
apn
5th Level Troll
Posts: 578
|
Post by apn on Sept 9, 2012 15:15:01 GMT -5
I think the game lacks support - a unified game world with a series ('adventure path'?) of connected adventures and unified look to the modules would elevate the game to something more than 'indie' status. For me, it's what separates 'Indie' and small press games from professional looking products. You get a rulebook, and that's it as far as T&T goes. I've got all the Corgi solos and they play like Fighting Fantasy, which is fine, but not supporting the game in a traditional RPG sense that explores a section of a continent with history, politics, legends and adventure ideas.
Sure, it'd be similar/copying the Basic/Expert D&D way of doing things, but that's not a bad thing.
So for Trollworld to grow, a single map, then a series of linked 3 part adventures. Get a single artist to do the cover, innards and have a unified layout. It's a gamble (costing time and effort) but churning out a new edition of the rules every few years feels like rebooting the game with a 'the new edition is better than the old, buy it!'. Sure, but what do you do with it?
Help us along here Ken, or Flying Buffalo or whomever.
|
|
|
Post by wilowisp on Sept 9, 2012 22:18:05 GMT -5
When I got into T&T, I was looking for a game which had the following qualities: 1. No clerical PC class. 2. No "we live to serve the gods!" stuff. 3. No "God does not exist" stuff (or its variants). 1 and 2 seems a little in contradiction with 3. If your world has gods (or god), it seems quite logical that there should be clerics and that peoples (even non clerics) should take care not to make anything that could anger them (and on the other hand, make things that could give you their (its) blessing)..... This world has God (not "god"), but even though I have to be way over 8th level by now as a cleric, I have no "spells".
|
|
|
Post by wilowisp on Sept 9, 2012 22:24:32 GMT -5
Trollworld is nice, but I don't want it or any other setting thrust on me. That was the principle reason I picked T&T over WHFRP. Well as T&T has no real built in setting with the rules (other than a few glimpses, hints, and teases of Ralph) it would be literally impossible for you to have a setting thrust upon you. Right; that's what I said. OtOh, while I think WHFRP is a great game, fans of it seem to really expect "The Old World" as the backdrop setting; along with all its "canon". I have a setting called "Gorax" that has an "invasion of Chaos" meme to it that WHFRP could simulate, but T&T would do it just as well, and there are no fan-boys with prior expectations.
|
|
zendog
4th Level Troll
Posts: 250
|
Post by zendog on Sept 10, 2012 3:26:38 GMT -5
I have a setting called "Gorax" that has an "invasion of Chaos" meme to it that WHFRP could simulate, but T&T would do it just as well, and there are no fan-boys with prior expectations. I totally get that. I love Runequest, but you practically need a degree in Gloranthology to run it for 'fans' these days. Same with The Wilderlands, and Thieves World, two of my other fav settings. Too much Fanon and Canon, and whistful nostaligia of peoples first games in those settings back in the day. It makes running those settings a bit of a drag. My belief is that every referee should make a published setting his own, mY Glorantha and my Wilderlands should be unique to me and completely different to any other referees version. Unfortunately folks want them run as published or in line with commonly held fanon. Having said all that I still do love a good setting, Savage Worlds had some great setting/plot point books and I'd love to do something like that for T&T.
|
|