T&T Advice

[machfront]

Let's say someone's interested in Tunnels & Trolls, no matter the edition, and they came from a background of the more structured and/or rules-heavy gaming (I say that because, if someone had experience with Over The Edge or Risus or something, then they'd do fine, I think).

What sort of advice would you give?

Would it be something general, such as stressing that much will have to be made up by the GM, 'balanced' by the GM and adjucated by the GM more than they were previously used to.

Something a bit more specific, such as not stressing the small stuff, like exact movement rates in combat or something.

Maybe reminding them to go wild with SRs. (I'd probably do that for someone that was going to use 5th ed., since SRs aren't as well spelled out as they are in the recent books.)

Most gamers know to leave their edition/game specific preconceptions behind when they look into a new game, but for some reason, T&T seems to stump a lot of them.
I can't say for sure, but I think it may have to do with the fact that it looks more structured than it is. For instance, the weapon tables. Also the fact that, at char gen at least, scores are in the D&D bell curve scale and it's a "class and level-based" game", lends towards a misconception that much of the rest will be similar, however different.

But, like I asked, what do you think is the best/most helpful/most mind-opening/whatever advice to give someone new to T&T?

[Toad-Killer-Dog]

I would take care to explain how SR are used in combat. I think more misunderstandings about T&T come from lack of explanation as to how SR can effect the mechanics of combat than just about anything else.

I hear all the time about stalemates from heavy armor, but with combat SR's that hardly ever becomes a problem.

Also I would stress that T&T does not have Character Classes, but Character Types. The difference being that Types simply define the characters relation to Magic and combat proficiency.

Warriors can be thieves, barbarians, knights, musketeers or cattle rustlers and Wizards can be scholars, theologians, necromancers or whatever they chose and Rouges are those that have a foot in both the worlds of magic and arms.

Unlike D&D where each of those distinctions would have to have a rigidly defined set of rules, skills and a correspondingly unique experience chart.

T&T breaks down characters into the most elemental of Types, those who focus on arms and fighting, those that focus on magic and those that learn lessons from both proficiencies.

T&T "Types" Leave a much wider panorama open for the players imagination to take free reign when forging a character.

[machfront]

You're right about both combat SRs and the distinction of Types. Good call.

I know that one of my "problems" when I first read T&T back in 1990 or so, was with how there were "only three classes!....that sucks!...waahh!". Yeah. Plus I was still in the stage of thinking that numbers on paper and put together in charts in certain ways, cross-referenced with specific powers and skills, being more numbers and factors themselves, all somehow made things more like real life..... ugh.

So, you and I have both covered SRs in and out of combat, so that's a definite.
Types. Absolutely.
Keeping it loose and fun and not worrying about fine details. (Hm. Need to nail that one down a lil bit.)
And the 'problem'/freedom/task of having to come up with many general details without the guidance of the rules (monsters, traps, drowning, fire, falling, etc.)

But, really, I guess a lot of advice can center around SRs, such as things like falling damage and just generally keeping it quick and simple, no matter the action or occurence in play.
"When in doubt...use an SR."

[Toad-Killer-Dog]

I know that by tradition we still call them "Saving Rolls", but sometimes it strikes me that it would be a lot easier to explain if they were called "Difficulty Rolls" or "Task Rolls" something more in that vein.

Some player thrive on being able to model their characters so individually, but I fear others have a harder time dealing with that much creative freedom.

I think stressing how easy to handle and play the T&T system is and its ability to be so easily customized to just about any setting is the best selling point to someone coming from a really rules heavy system.

Especially if the number crunching has started to fry their brains. ;D

[lionrampant]

One huge difference is that D&D (this becomes more significant as you move into more modern editions) is built around a heavy tactical man-to-man combat system. T&T has nothing like this at all, as combat is as abstract as everything else in the game. I have had real trouble getting D&Ders I know to try T&T as the lack of heavy tactical combat scares them, or something like that. It's kind of odd.

[koraq]

I just recently started up a T&T group and take care of walk-in players every week. What I've done is stress that T&T has a "universal resolution mechanic" and that the types are oriented around "magic, combat or a combination". That way I have gotten most people to grasp the idea.

Then I've told them that combat and everything else, thanks to that "universal resolution mechanic" is a arena for anything you like. People who like tactical details seems to like the idea that they can do lot of tactical moves and it have effects (via a SR that is!)

T&T might have an abstract game system but you can easy sell the SR as a way to do all the crunchy stuff from other games. I just tell them everything is possible since we have one simple mechanic for it all.

Like above really, but I just wanted to add that I actually had succeeded in "selling" the game to people this way!

[castiglione]

You can make T & T as crunchy as you wanna make it.

Just look at Arena of Khazan for more tactical SR-heavy ways to do combat.

There are also back-issues of Sorcerer's Apprentice that included house rules for stuff like gladiator combat (which included some standardized rules for throwing a net at someone, etc.)...stuff like that could come in handy for dueling type fights. They also had rules for "called shots", i.e. during the fight, you want to stab the bad-guy in the heart with your rapier! Now you can!

[order99]

Sounds like I need to get that one once my employment situation is rectified...i'll have to see if "that guy" carries that one.

[Toad-Killer-Dog]

I know it won't happen, but a compilation of "Sorcerers Apprentice" would be my dream product. ;D

[castiglione]

Yeah - a "Best of Sorcerer's Apprentice" would totally kick major booty.

Despite the fact that it only had a run of a little over a dozen issues, there was a lot of neato stuff in there.

Stuff like rules for fire-arms in T & T (Mausers and Machine Guns...in dungeons!!!!). The Lovecraftian variant (how to play T & T in the world of Lovecraft's 1920). Errata for the 5th edition (stuff that was accidentally left out of the rules). Combat variants, i.e. how to avoid the whole "stalemate" issue (spite damage, burning armor, combatants getting tired and collapsing in a puddle of sweat and poo), calling your shots in hand-to-hand combat, gladiator style combat (for all those fans of trident and net fighting), spite damage (so you can at least poke out that troll's eye before he chews off your head), how to set up a murder mystery adventure (delvers come back to town after a grueling week of dungeon delving...go to a party...and the host ends up dead...and they're the prime suspects! Better solve the case or end up getting tossed into Naked Doom or the Arena of Khazan).

[koraq]

That sounds like a lot of goodies, yes.

Have that 5th ed errata been reprinted somewhere? I'd love to see that one.

[unclecranky]

The first thing I would tell anyone from another game tradition is 'calm down', followed by 'light one up' or the non-smoking equivalent, followed by 'it's easy!'
This has how I've introduced lots of former D&D and S&S players to T&T (yes, I corrupted a few S&S players! and they stayed corrupted...)

[jasperpcasper]

Well, golly gee whiz... I wonder if he advocates smoking for non-gaming newbies, too. No wonder everybody thinks the hobby's dying out - sounds like unclecranky's killin' them off one noob at a time with his horrible horrible cigarette smoke! I think I'd start them out with a complimentary copy of the version 5 rules (they only cost 10 bucks) and let them see how easy it is to roll up a character and get started.

[Aramis of Erak]

Feb 19, 2009 20:45:32 GMT -5 unclecranky said:

The first thing I would tell anyone from another game tradition is 'calm down', followed by 'light one up' or the non-smoking equivalent, followed by 'it's easy!'
This has how I've introduced lots of former D&D and S&S players to T&T (yes, I corrupted a few S&S players! and they stayed corrupted...)

Which S&S?

[quoghmyre]

jasperpcasper I don't think uncle was talking nicotine

My advice would be Role-Play your character and let the GM call the dice rolls, you'll see how it works very quickly.