rlotze
2nd Level Troll
Posts: 79
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Post by rlotze on Jan 21, 2008 17:23:21 GMT -5
Sounds good. I look forward to getting them (slowly over time) then! Thanks!
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Post by castiglione on Mar 26, 2008 10:37:02 GMT -5
Hi - I also recently picked up the 1st, 4th, 1st UK ed's of T & T and the Metagaming version of M! M! Thanks for the heads-up about Andy Holmes's solos. I was curious as to their quality and knowing that his name is a mark of quality gives me a place to start.
About the 1st edition - comparing it to the UK 1st ed (which is basically the US 1st edition plus stuff from a rules supplement that FBI published), I believe the "that company" version is the actual 1st edition, only re-typeset. I think they used some sort of optical recognition software to do this which may account for some of the odd characters that made their way into print. Most of the rules between 1st and 4th editions are the same with the exceptions being wizards not getting any positive adds at all, armor being ablative and the missile rules (you don't roll to hit - THEY roll to dodge). The 1st edition also lacks a treasure generator chart (I suppose that came along in the supplement). Also, in the 1st edition US and 1st edition UK...TTYF is horribly powerful because the exponential rule applies to it as well...instead of multiplying the level of the TTYF by the caster's IQ, it's the casters IQ DOUBLED for each level above one! Thus, a 3rd level TTYF does 4 X IQ, a 4th level does 8 X IQ, a 5th level does 16 X IQ, and a 6th level does 32 X IQ and a 7th level does 64 X IQ and so forth! Basically, TTYF becomes the most powerful spell there is and there's a reference to that in the 1st UK edition - there's an article at the end on world building when Ken St. Andre acknowledges that in the rules as they stand, wizards gain almost god-like powers at high levels. It wasn't until the 4th US edition (which came after the 1st UK edition) that this was changed.
In the FBI version of M! M!, Ken St. Andre mentions some errors he was unhappy about having crept into the Metagaming version, which was edited by Steve Jackson (I think these errors were due to Steve Jackson being unfamiliar with T & T); I believe I found at least one error that he might have been talking about. If you read the section on saving rolls, they contain the following error - the MINIMUM number required to make a SR goes UP with level (2 points for each level)! Thus, a 1st level SR minimum is 5, 2nd level is 7, and so on. I think I know where this misunderstanding on Steve Jackson's part came in - I think a lot of the rules were ported over directly from 1st/4th edition T & T and if you read how SR's are explained in those early editions, it's possible for someone unfamiliar with T & T to come to that conclusion (in the example given, the character has a LK of 18...so a 1st level SR would require him to roll a 5 and a 2nd level SR would require...a 7, etc.).
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doc
1st Level Troll
Posts: 13
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Post by doc on Jan 2, 2009 20:36:52 GMT -5
Let me conduct some online necromancy for a minute: I've been ordering products from OP for the past couple of years, and I have yet to be disappointed. Some of the best items I've gotten include: Griffin Feathers; a great series of stories that includes the early years of the Death Goddess herself. Gristlegrim Dungeon; I love the encounters in this one. Each one is a challenge and some are just nasty. Gamma-Trollworld; I just really like the feel of the game. The zombie cyborg on the cover says it all. Superheroes Powertrip; Not the superhero game that came out awhile back, but an entirely new game written by Ken St. Andre that gives me everything that I want in a superhero game, a quick system with slam-bang action and loads of powers. T&T 2007 House Rules; Possibly one of the best products that I've gotten from OP. Just chock full of good ideas the way that an ogre is chock full of unnatural gas. I'm hoping for a 2008 update. And of course the freebies that "that guy" throws in are just the icing on the cake. I'll be putting together another order soon. I check the site every few months or so and I always find more stuff I want. Oh, the horror! Doc
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2009 17:13:12 GMT -5
Does anyone know why they still use a geocities.com address?
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Mar 15, 2009 17:55:09 GMT -5
I've wondered that myself. The url outlawpress.com isn't taken. I don't know why he doesn't claim it.
He was way ahead and now I'm afraid he's quickly losing ground. On Lulu and no hardbounds of anything. No pdfs of anything... *sigh*
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koraq
4th Level Troll
Posts: 355
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Post by koraq on Mar 22, 2009 19:39:07 GMT -5
No, outlawpress.com is taken. It looks like a cybersquater, though. Most likely that means it's very expensive to get it. "was way ahead and now I'm afraid he's quickly losing ground" What? What is he loosing? He just opened a storefront on Lulu, and frankly Lulu have recently raised prices for hardbacks excessively, so I don't blame him for not offering that. James is not alone being afraid of the fact that a pdf is so easy to copy and spread. I don't agree it's an issue, but some game producers do. Their call.
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Mar 22, 2009 21:37:27 GMT -5
Well, what I meant was that there's more he can and should do that many other small companies are doing.
Yes, I know the Lulu hardback thing is a big to-do, but to not offer it at all as an option for those that would want it is silly. Not offering pdfs is asinine. I don't give a flying F what lame idea people have of their precious product being stolen, not offering it as a viable option for honest customers is silly. And honest customers is all you'd have. Anyone that's going to steal those pdfs, there's a 99.99% chance they'd never have bought it in the first place. What's more... many of the retro-clone publishers offer their pdfs for free in the first place. It hasn't caused them to lose any business. If you really want a printed book, you'll still have to pay for that.
To me... it just all adds up to being obvious and in-your-face, hard to ignore... to not offer pdfs and to be on Lulu and not offer hardbacks is not a good idea. Most gamers prefer hardbacks. Most gamers like to have a game on pdf nowadays, whether they also have the physical book or not...
I'm glad he's on Lulu now, though. Maybe now he won't print things in advance and end up losing money on something that doesn't move.
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koraq
4th Level Troll
Posts: 355
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Post by koraq on Mar 23, 2009 12:42:15 GMT -5
We totally agree on the PDF issue, Machfront!!
As for hardbacks, I've just realized that the amount of books from OP that are big enough for hardcover treatment are actually quite few. Are you looking at something in particular? Maybe you could ask James about it and he will make it available? I don't know much about Lulu, but it might be that it actually cost to have that option available.
Now, apart from that I'm still not really clear on what you mean that other companies are doing?
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Mar 23, 2009 19:01:45 GMT -5
Ya know... that's a very good point. There's really not much that warrants a hardback is there? Thanks for bringing me back down to earth on that. I dunno. Maybe it all stemmed from the fact that I really wanted Mythical Sixth Edition in hardback. ;D
As far as the "other companies" thing, I guess I was only mainly talkin' about pdfs. Perhaps some better visability. A lot of small press guys get on forums large and small and pimp their stuff, raising awareness. Not only do many folks not know who or what "that company" is... there's lots and lots of gamers who honestly think that T&T itself is out of print and has been so for a looong time. Very sad. For T&T, not them.
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Post by Vin Ahrr Vin on Apr 5, 2009 9:48:59 GMT -5
About the 1st edition - comparing it to the UK 1st ed (which is basically the US 1st edition plus stuff from a rules supplement that FBI published), I believe the "that company" version is the actual 1st edition, only re-typeset. I think they used some sort of optical recognition software to do this which may account for some of the odd characters that made their way into print. Most of the rules between 1st and 4th editions are the same with the exceptions being wizards not getting any positive adds at all, armor being ablative and the missile rules (you don't roll to hit - THEY roll to dodge). The 1st edition also lacks a treasure generator chart (I suppose that came along in the supplement). Also, in the 1st edition US and 1st edition UK... Thanks for some information about 1E. It's one I have thought about tracking down but for some reason never got around to getting, so it's nice to hear how it differes from my beloved 5E.
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Apr 5, 2009 11:17:36 GMT -5
Vin, If you haven't already, you may be interested in the info about UK 1st ed. (and T&T 1st ed. too, since that and the T&T Supplement are what make up the UK 1e) in this HERE thread.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2009 14:09:22 GMT -5
FYI - GeoCities is closing down later this year. The site has already been moved to outlaw-press.com/
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Post by Toad-Killer-Dog on Apr 27, 2009 16:55:47 GMT -5
Thanks BigDude its nice to know Outlaw is already taken care of. ;D
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Apr 28, 2009 7:07:49 GMT -5
*in Lost in Space Robot voice* "Bookmark...updated."
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Post by Mhegrrrim Skulltosser on May 1, 2009 20:54:43 GMT -5
Well don't forget to go there and buy stuff. Everyone wants T&T to be better supported. It can only be done with your money (Uncle Sam-troll pointing his finger at you the reader) All kidding aside... Now that PDFs are available, it seems like a good time to pile up on some great material.
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