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Post by apeloverage on Mar 12, 2008 10:06:43 GMT -5
Forgive my ignorance, but is D20 an edition of D&D, or is it a generic set of RPG rules? I have seen 'non-D&D' products advertised as D20 or D20 compatible. Is D20 a TSR creation or was it originally put out by WotC? 'Dungeons and Dragons' refers to the fantasy game only. 'd20' refers to Dungeons and Dragons, 'd20 Modern', and 'd20 Future' (I think there might be 'd20 Past' as well). All of them are the 'intellectual property' of WotC (and were put out by them). However WotC allows anyone to use the d20 logo, provided they meet certain criteria - mainly that they don't have rules for character creation or advancement. This means that you can produce supplements, but not core books (because WotC believed that they could make money on core books, but not on supplements). That's why 'Dungeon Crawl Classics' for example describes their adventures as being for 'd20 fantasy', rather than for Dungeons and Dragons. However, since you can't copyright rules, there's nothing stopping you making core books which use the d20 rules, you just can't use the d20 logo or name. You can also put out supplements which use the d20 rules but don't say so, but the idea is that you'd be better off economically not doing that.
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Post by Mist-tikk Foo-all on Mar 13, 2008 8:19:40 GMT -5
'd20' refers to Dungeons and Dragons, 'd20 Modern', and 'd20 Future' (I think there might be 'd20 Past' as well). Is there a generic 'D20 Rulebook' or does each type of D20 have its own rulebook? Or is the OGL actually the D20 rules? Funny, as kids we thought AD&D1E was cumbersome, but because we purchased books as they came out we were able to consume it in small bits. Little did we know how confusing D&D would really become decades in the future! However, since you can't copyright rules You know, I've heard this but I don't really understand what that means. Does that mean matrices and charts cannot be copyrighted, the actual written rule systems (like combat, skills, attributes, etc.) cannot, or both? I ask because there are certain old, obscure games I would like to post and/or make public use of (for example, see the thread on the General Board I started called The Creatrix) for archival and/or playing purposes. I don't want to violate anyone's copyright, but given the vast amount of 'forgotten rpgs', it would be nice to rescue a few from the trash bins.
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Post by apeloverage on Mar 13, 2008 9:20:57 GMT -5
Is there a generic 'D20 Rulebook' or does each type of D20 have its own rulebook? Or is the OGL actually the D20 rules? As far as I know: Dungeons and Dragons, d20 Future, and d20 Modern are all sold seperately (in three books, in D&D's case). The Open Gaming License is actually the license to use the rules (that you have to reproduce if you use the d20 logo). The document itself is the System Reference Document. The d20 SRD is Dungeons and Dragons minus character creation and advancement rules. The d20 Modern SRD is the equivalent. I couldn't find the d20 Future SRD on Wizards of the Coast's confusing site, but apparently there is one, at d20resources.com.
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Post by apeloverage on Mar 13, 2008 9:27:48 GMT -5
However, since you can't copyright rules You know, I've heard this but I don't really understand what that means. Does that mean matrices and charts cannot be copyrighted, the actual written rule systems (like combat, skills, attributes, etc.) cannot, or both? I ask because there are certain old, obscure games I would like to post and/or make public use of (for example, see the thread on the General Board I started called The Creatrix) for archival and/or playing purposes. I don't want to violate anyone's copyright, but given the vast amount of 'forgotten rpgs', it would be nice to rescue a few from the trash bins. My understanding is that you can't copyright rules, only the 'artistic presentation' of those rules, and specific terms. I think copyright law is pretty standard from one Western country to another (although the time limits for material going into the public domain are different - for example Robert E Howard and HP Lovecraft's works are public domain in Australia, but may not be in the US). There's an American page on it here. The people who did OSRIC have taken it to mean that you can copy the rules and use generic terms like 'wizard', but original terms like 'ThAC0' are protected. It's particularly useful for fantasy, because of course most of the background material is in the public domain.
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Post by Mist-tikk Foo-all on Mar 13, 2008 16:25:07 GMT -5
Thanks for the info apeloverage, have an exalt for being so patient and explaining it to me.
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Post by apeloverage on Mar 15, 2008 0:02:09 GMT -5
Thanks for the info apeloverage, have an exalt for being so patient and explaining it to me. Thanks! Feel free to smite me if it turns out to be wrong Another thing I found out recently which is interesting, is that you can use terms like 'Dungeons & Dragons', as long as it wouldn't give a reasonable person the impression that it had some connection that it didn't have. This apparently came out because some companies were making material and selling them as being 'compatible with Advanced Dungeons & Dragons' (this was way before the d20 license). TSR sued, but settled before a verdict could be reached.
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Post by gamepunk26 on Apr 23, 2008 3:15:41 GMT -5
I am going to blend C&C with some the Basic Fantasy RPG for my next run. My players are clamoring for just a bit more detail and I don't want to muck up T&T with a bunch of goofy, half-played rules to satisfy them.
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Post by lionrampant on Apr 23, 2008 7:27:48 GMT -5
After goofing around with RC D&D, Labyrinth Lord, and Basic Fantasy lately, I have landed on Basic Fantasy as my go-to- "old school" D&D-style game of choice, mainly because I agree with the changes the original creator made to the D20 system, and the things he didn't change. I've been pretty quiet on the boards because I've been messing with that game rather than T&T lately. Hey, don't look at me like that!
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Post by gamepunk26 on Apr 24, 2008 0:08:27 GMT -5
Cheers Lion. I am in the same boat. I have been obsessed with Drive-Thru RPG and looking for some creative RPG systems to help my group break thier preconceptions and style of role-playing. Then I am going to dive into BFRPG head first. Labyrinth Lord is wicked cool too, but BFRPG has so much FREE support.
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eagle
1st Level Troll
Posts: 45
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Post by eagle on Dec 10, 2009 10:56:08 GMT -5
In c&c the dragons are really tough. As far as old RPG's are concerned, RPG drive thru has some FGU downloads. I now have PDF's of Aftermath and Space Opera. And by the way, what does LOL mean?
Your Tunnels and Troll nut,
James
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Post by ProfGremlin on Dec 10, 2009 12:50:57 GMT -5
And by the way, what does LOL mean? NetLingoLOL: Laughing Out Loud -or- Lots of Love Make a man a fire and he'll be warm for the night. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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eagle
1st Level Troll
Posts: 45
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Post by eagle on Dec 11, 2009 8:52:34 GMT -5
Hi progremlin,
I didn't know about the Laughing Out Loud which explains some things but I can't believe that I figured out that if also means Lots of Love.
Your Tunnel and Troll Nut,
James
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eagle
1st Level Troll
Posts: 45
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Post by eagle on Dec 11, 2009 8:56:20 GMT -5
Apeloverage,
Maybe terms like THACO have to be Trademarked first with the circle R.
Youe Tunnel and Troll Nut,
James
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Post by sonofthor on Dec 11, 2009 9:06:55 GMT -5
I also have to give a thumbs up to Rules Cyclopedia. It's one of my favorite books!
Also if you get the chance, check out Swords & Wizardry.
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Post by hrrrothgarrr on Dec 11, 2009 13:21:29 GMT -5
S&W is pretty good. I wish I still had the 200+ pages of single space typed house rules I had for OD&D, Arduin Grimoire was a huge influence on my game.
As for copyright, rules (as printed) can be and are copyrighted. The mechanics behind the written rules cannot be copyrighted, I am not sure how the Patent Office would react if someone tried to pattent an RPG. This does mean that you can't simply reprint someone else's tables and charts. You could increase all the numbers by 1 and probably get away with it, as long the rest of your game was sufficiently "original expression".
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