Outlaw Mess

[Ea]

That Table of Contents (you can see it using the "preview" feature in Lulu) for Best of the Hobbit Hole is quite long, Toad-Killer-Dog... pretty much everyone who's ever contributed anything to OP is featured there.
I doubt anyone will be getting any copies though, and a free copy sure doesn't excuse the fact that their intellectual property is being used without permission or after permission has been rescinded.
It's quite comical too that the credits page says that all the text is copyrighted by "that company" and "that guy". I wonder how many contributors have actually sold ANY rights (let alone copyrights) to OP... especially when he's selling stuff like Starfaring.
Again, how very pathetic and sad.

[sonofthor]

If I wanted to get a copy of Starfaring is OP the only way to get it?

[Branderwydd /|\]

Per Ken (I didn't quote the whole email here, just the key point):

"I want to remind you all and the outside world that his publication of any and all T & T material except whatever he wrote himself is completely unauthoroized and unsupported now by Flying Buffalo, Fiery Dragon, and me, Ken St. Andre. I would encourage you not to buy anything from him, and to tell your friends not to buy any. I have asked Jim to return all my material to me. He has refused. I don't blame him. He has put a lot of work and money into publishing it, but it's still wrong. I DO NOT SUPPORT HIS PUBLICATION OF ANYTHING WITH THE NAME KEN ST. ANDRE ON IT. I would appreciate it if those of you who are members of other role-playing fora would spread this information."

[Aramis of Erak]

Jan 9, 2010 14:34:09 GMT -5 sonofthor said:

If I wanted to get a copy of Starfaring is OP the only way to get it?

It is, at present, one of several ways to get copies in violation of Ken's Copyright. The others are to photocopy someone elses, or find a pirate scan.

In short, it's not a legitimate method, just one with false color of legitimacy.

[lostheretic]

Jan 9, 2010 14:08:41 GMT -5 Ea said:

I doubt anyone will be getting any copies though, and a free copy sure doesn't excuse the fact that their intellectual property is being used without permission or after permission has been rescinded.

Is your work being stolen and published without your permission?

Report it here: www.lulu.com/en/help/copyright_faq#copyright_notice

[Hogscape]

I think it's worth reprinting all of Ken's missive.

Greetings, O Mighty Ones

I have learned this morning that "that guy" has maintained his storefront business on Lulu. You can see it here.

stores.lulu.com/hobbit_king

I want to remind you all and the outside world that his publication of any and all T & T material except whatever he wrote himself is completely unauthoroized and unsupported now by Flying Buffalo, Fiery Dragon, and me, Ken St. Andre. I would encourage you not to buy anything from him, and to tell your friends not to buy any.

I have asked Jim to return all my material to me. He has refused. I don't blame him. He has put a lot of work and money into publishing it, but it's still wrong. I DO NOT SUPPORT HIS PUBLICATION OF ANYTHING WITH THE NAME KEN ST. ANDRE ON IT.

I would appreciate it if those of you who are members of other role-playing fora would spread this information.

And I once again ask all Trollhalla members to not send him anything else.

Thanks,
Ken St. Andre
Jan. 9, 2010

[machfront]

Nope. I didn't get a copy either, TKD. I'm sure we won't.
I mean...wow. My one, single little thing that went in the most recent issue of HH is in the "best of"? Gimmie a break.

What a tool.

It's not like he can claim complete "rights" over my s***. My 'article' is right here on these boards in it's entirety anyhow.

But it's still selling Ken's Starfaring that gets me.
The gall.

[Hogscape]

M6E is up there too. Not sure how I feel about that. Moot point I guess.

[illustriouslife]

I've been talking with "that guy" since all of this happened - he plans on continuing to sell his books in PDF and print on demand forms, but won't be doing any more print runs. He owns all of the stuff that people wrote for him, and claims he needs no one's permission to publish T&T material of any kind. Those of you which submitted anything to him need to realize that he's set things up in a way where there's little anyone can do about it.

The magazine stuff though, might be a different sort of agreement (I'm not sure), so some of you may want to look into where your rights to that material stands.

[jongjungbu]

Unless you had a contract with him, then you could put your material online for free. Then he wouldn't make any money and your work would continue to propagate T&T as it should.

[karluush]

I'm not sure he makes people sign contracts. I remember submitting something to him (which he claimed he'd publish) and he never made me sign anything.

But his claims are ridiculous: generall if you are publishing something using someone else's trademarked or copyrighted materials you NEED their permission (unless its open gaming or w/e). If they tell you to stop, you have to stop selling. Period. It seems he's just upset because he has a lot of backstock that he wants to get rid of - which he cannot legally do because he had what amounts to his license being pulled. The only reason he's doing it is because he knows no one has the money to sue him or to hire a lawyer.

[mgtremaine]

Jan 10, 2010 10:12:17 GMT -5 illustriouslife said:

He owns all of the stuff that people wrote for him, and claims he needs no one's permission to publish T&T material of any kind. Those of you which submitted anything to him need to realize that he's set things up in a way where there's little anyone can do about it.

This statement has many problems. He can not own material written by someone else unless a contract was legally executed which from the others involved we know was never done. What he is doing is illegal under US and International Copyright law, period. He may get away with it from the likes Trollhalla and Trollbridge but he already has been smacked down on the art issues since there is no more outlaw-press on the internet. We just need to staned united against what he is doing and remind everyone we can not to buy from "that guy", Outlaw-Press, Selling4u2 and any other alias he cares to come up with.

-Mike

[Aramis of Erak]

Also, any of you whose work has been published in anything other than agreed upon use can go to the US Attorney's office and press for criminal infringement. Or start with the FBI, who have to do the gruntwork, anyway.

Commercial infringement, in the US, is a criminal (not civil) offense, and carries huge fines ($50,000+) and jail time (up to 5 years per count).

Without a contract, his permission to publish can be revoked by notification. Without written contract, he can't prove transfer of copyright. If enough people who were wronged get together, the US Attorney will press the charges, no lawyers for the wronged needed, and once convicted, then his assets (houses, cars, IP's) can be pursued in civil court.

[lostheretic]

Jan 10, 2010 18:32:11 GMT -5 Aramis of Erak said:

Commercial infringement, in the US, is a criminal (not civil) offense, and carries huge fines ($50,000+) and jail time (up to 5 years per count).

Indeed, and they do keep records of such infringement. If an individual reaches a certain threshold they will go after them, even if its a lot of petty crime.

[Hogscape]

I never signed a contract. If I wrote it or drew it... It's mine...

Mine I tell you! MINE!

Bwahahahahahahaha!