Why I like Tunnels and Trolls

[eagle]

I like T&T because of its flexibility. The combat system is what stands out to me with the different enhancements others T&T'ers
can add. I like using the calculator. I usually use both MR and
CON for the monsters. That way, the MR doesn't Decrease.
For you Newbies, MR=Monster Rating, Con = Constitution

Your Tunnel and Troll Nut,

James

[cartomancer]

Good reasons!

Personally i like the simplicity throughout the entire system (such that i only have to refer to the rulebook for weapons and such). I also like the fact that you can teach the game to most people in no time what so ever, it doesn't take 2 sides of A4 to create a character, it doesn't take itself too seriously, the fact that i only need one small book of rules to play instead of 3 heavy ones and, the fact that all i need are D6 which i already have in other boardgames.

It's family friendly too, which means you can sit down with a bunch of kids or a bunch of adults and not have to change the tone of the game.

All round, it's just a well thought out, well executed set of rules that let you play the game you want to play. Not the game the sourcebook (which would bring the book total to the other game to a mininum of 4) tells you, you have to.

I figure, if you want static rules, clearly defined situations and, very little sense of achievement, play the other game. If you want to cut loose, get back to what roleplaying was all about and, have a laugh with your friends as you do, pick up TnT.

There is of course no reason you cant play both but, i know which one appeals to me most. :0).

[feldrik]

The editions are cross compatible, meaning that a new edition did not make all previous books you bough obsolete. The core of combat-SR-and magic are always the same.

[uburoi]

Dec 7, 2009 12:11:35 GMT -5 cartomancer said:

it doesn't take 2 sides of A4 to create a character

Viz.

[ragnorakk]

There's a lot of reasons to like this game, aren't there? And I think a lot of them come down to flexibility, and not much in the way of saying "you can't do this or that". It's a fabulously free form game - good for high-power, good for low-power - is there anything this game can't handle?

[machfront]

Hard to top what's already covered by cartomancer.

Longer answer is: What makes T&T great?
Read every single post on this entire forum and one may begin to understand.

'Course, luckily one can't be so dense as to need such a mountain of evidence.
(Sure, there's lots of posts 'bout any game on any fan forum...but how many of those are arguments? How many of those do we ever have here? One? Ever? I don't recall.)

Without completely and totally reiterating what's already been stated, I can say this: I love that every single one of those games, sourcebooks and so on that I have on my shelf won't be subjected to the 'wish-I-coulda-played-or-used-that-if-not-for-the-suck-within'. Heck, I don't even have to be intimately familiar with said book(s) system(s), I just pull what I want and stat what I want however I want in the blink of an eye and all's well.
So very many games purport to do such, but I've personally never seen it actually truthfully occur (outside of fanboy hyperbole) except with T&T (and, admittedly, some other light systems, but T&T still comes out ahead, IMHO).

[djacknh]

I love the fact that the system is so simple and that you hardly ever have to spend 5 minutes clarifying a rule during play.

I like that I can add on house rules and have the kind of realism I want and still keep complexity low.

I like that there are tons of solo adventures!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

[quoghmyre]

I wrote this before we started work with 7.0. it had little influence on the final outcome.

Why I like Tunnels and Trolls,
A troll comes home.

During 1979, I became aware of Role-Playing-Games, RPG's as we fondly know them, and as a lowly paid worker I carefully pondered which to purchase. I won't go through all the options as there were so many back then. Tunnels and Trolls. I would like to explain why and as the next version develops perhaps remind ourselves what made T&T so special.

I believe that many of the things that made T&T special also worked against it commercially, and many who needed to make a living from their efforts went unrewarded. This I perceive as an on-going problem.

List of Special Attributes
1. Only needed a hand full of d6's, pencil and paper to play.
I have played with about 50 people over the years and only 3 of us ever had a copy of the rules. The players would show-up with their wonderful characters, handfuls of dice and a pencil-case chocked full of pencils, erasers and pens. They didn't require anything else, this made it very easy to get new players started. It also meant that "Rule Book" sales never reflected the success of the game.

2. Very simple core rules, cut the crap.
As time and versions advance, the only thing that can happen is that things get more complicated. It is very difficult to release a "New Update" without adding something new. We see this in computer software, collectable card games and RPG's. It doesn't need to be this way. Fight Bloatware!
Why not refine the core elements. I loved the fact that there was a limited set of Character Stats, Using ST for both physical strength and wizard spell casting was great. I never allowed wizards to use their huge ST ratings for bashing or lifting, often limiting their personal adds in weapon combat. CHR was how Orcish you looked or how Elvish... There is a flexibility and ambiguity in T&T that can not be achieved in the likes of computer/card games. We didn't play SPeed until the character sheets introduced it, normally I used Dex or LK to resolve speed issues.
The SR is another key to easy role playing, from a player point of view it's a Stat+2d6 chance, DARO. Each part of the adventure had a level, if the task at hand was easier than the level I would reduce the require level SR, downwards towards level 0. If the task was more difficult then up goes the SR level. This allowed the players to quickly decide if their ideas were workable, L5 Rogue, "I look to see if I can climb the wall", "You see that it is an easy climb"(L4 Dex), or at another location it may be, "You see that it would be very difficult" (L7 Dex). Then they can choose to give it a go or not.
The combat system is also great and simple, Random Weapon Damage + Fixed Damage + Personal Advantage, compare the totals, difference is damage then deduct armour. Sure there is a chance of impasse, but that's what the GM/Player interaction is for, to resolve these, through SR's or discussion. It is these very problems that make theT&T game system great, not a rule set that covers every outcome.

3. Open Ended character development.
I love heroic fantasy. Warriors that can slay 100's of enemies in a single battle, Wizards who can blast their way out of any problem, Rogues who can pick their way into the most dire of situations. This is where T&T has no equal. I am constantly stunned by the amazing feats that players come up with when they find themselves with their backs to the wall. This was a key aspect to choosing T&T and again one that no other game I've played can ever rival.

4. Focused on Fun.
While I must admit, the first and one of the very few times my wife cursed me and cried, was when her L9 wizard died. The focus on T&T has always been fun, and I learned a very important lesson that day. Sure, death is very much a part of RPG's and how you deal with that is important, but let it be fun. A Heroic Character must have a Heroic End. What are the fun aspects of T&T? Firstly discovering your characters strengths and weakness, advancement in experience and wealth, discovering the fantastic world around them and their effects on it, and interacting with the other players. The co-operation of the party was a key to my love of T&T, go off by yourself, treat the party with disdain, and death awaited around the next corner. T&T is a team sport, with the GM as much a part of that team as the players. T&T does not take it's self too seriously and this is great, it allows humour and jokes as well as death and glory.

5. GM extensible, house rules.
With elaborations a part of the "Rule Book" and the concept that the resource material could in no way be inclusive, and cover every event, that it was the GM's responsibility to "make it up". The excellent SA magazine demonstrated that everyone had different solutions to the myriad of problems that GMs faced and that what worked for you was the correct way to do it. This aspect of T&T is about empowerment. It created an environment of creativity, where the wonders of your imagination could be explored. This makes T&T the best game I have ever played. The shared creativity of those involved, from Ken through to the new beginner, from every GM to Flying Buffalo the joy and sharing of fun and team exploration.

So I would like to wish all those who have been a part of T&T every success with it's renaissance, I think that while some of it's inherent greatness works against it's commercial success, technology and time can overcome these. I see a golden age dawning for the Old Troll and his fiends, let us work together to bring it to pass.

I would recommend a returning to the basics, with simple core player components, with GM support components and additional resources. T&T is a special game, lets keep it that way.

[Hogscape]

Ahhh, a nice bit of Kiwi logic from Quog. Sweet!

For me, all of the above reasons apply but only to 5th edition. The seventh iteration muddies the waters for no gain and earlier editions were just too slender and poorly proofed (anyone make sense of SRs for monsters)?

Fifth edtion has it all - oodles of atmosphere, outstanding, iconic art, brilliant writing, a starting adventure! And too much else besides.

Unless Liz comes back to the fold, I can't see those halcyon days being recaptured but until then, we'll always have Paris Fifth Edition.

[uburoi]

Dec 9, 2009 1:38:19 GMT -5 Hogscape said:

(anyone make sense of SRs for monsters)?

Don't get me started on the fact that, BTB, a 1st level Orc has almost TWICE the MR of a first-level Ogre.

[wilowisp]

Dec 9, 2009 1:38:19 GMT -5 Hogscape said:

Unless Liz comes back to the fold, I can't see those halcyon days being recaptured but until then, we'll always have Paris Fifth Edition.

I guess I'm running 5.75- I'm using 5.5 with a more simplified approach to skill advancement and 6.0's Professional.

From what I've seen here, I'm pretty sure I don't want 7+

[uburoi]

You know, I've commented on this thread but haven't yet said why I like T&T...

I mean, why T&T as opposed to AD&D, which, after all, there's a lot more material available for? Or Runequest or Tekumel, with their detailed worlds you could get lost in? How about Rolemaster, with all its detail? Or one of the OSR clones, being free and all?

I guess it's partially the solos, which are a very nice thing for someone without an active gaming group and with an irregular schedule (among other reasons, which I'll not go into). Simplicity, for another - I've always preferred random chargen, and the only system I've seen simpler than bog-standard T&T is chargen from "The Fantasy Trip". Cool weapons don't hurt, either - it's so much more fun to outfit a character with a patar and a set of chakrams than yet another longbow & broadsword.

But the important thing is the ATTITUDE. Not just the attitude of the game istelf, but KSA's attitude of "you bought it, make it your own" which Gygax aspired to and evidently forgot about until near the end. No pronouncements of THE ONE TRUE WAY that must be followed, lest your campaign disintegrate. House Rules a-go-go. ENCOURAGING PCs to play monster characters if they want to, instead of penalizing them for doing so. Simple systems without the cruft that turns some other games into mechanical dice-rolling. Core rules that cost about 1/4 of the competition.

AAAAAAAAND... while Flying Buffalo & Firey Dragon seem slow about support, the former is still publishing - you get none of this feeling of "OMG we need new product to push this year" as seems to be the case with Certain Other Companies. And even 7.5 is still back-compatible with pretty much all the T&T stuff you already own, in the exact way The Aforementioned Competition isn't.

[hrrrothgarrr]

I really like 7.5. Maybe it is because T&T has always support my number one house rule: "Don't let the rules get in the way of a good game".

I think that house rule, which is T&T's guiding philosophy is why I like T&T so much. Simple rules, easy to play, fun, all editiuons easilly compatible.

And you can add your own stuff in a snap.

[uburoi]

Dec 9, 2009 11:26:45 GMT -5 wilowisp said:

From what I've seen here, I'm pretty sure I don't want 7+

I'd say if you have the money, at least pick up the PDF version. Converting spells and monsters over is no problem, there's some nice artwork in the 7th Rules (esp. the delvers getting outfitted) and there are some good rules like Spite damage suitable for retrofitting into 5.5.

And it never hurts to give money to those who sincerely love T&T.

[machfront]

Dec 9, 2009 12:42:59 GMT -5 uburoi said:

Dec 9, 2009 11:26:45 GMT -5 wilowisp said:

From what I've seen here, I'm pretty sure I don't want 7+

I'd say if you have the money, at least pick up the PDF version. Converting spells and monsters over is no problem, there's some nice artwork in the 7th Rules (esp. the delvers getting outfitted) and there are some good rules like Spite damage suitable for retrofitting into 5.5.

And it never hurts to give money to those who sincerely love T&T.

Well, Spite Damage is in 5.5, but yeah, there's still some cool stuff. Monster special ability activation and Talents. Some extra spells if that's your taste (though the costs are a little different so one would have to keep that in mind).