darrght
4th Level Troll
Wow, I'm a 4th Level Troll!
Posts: 441
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Post by darrght on Apr 3, 2023 12:57:21 GMT -5
Legends of Ogul-Duhr: Halls of the Gorgon The unforuntate, and now everpresent question (esp. since it's not in my library): suitability for conversion to M!M! and re-entrance into the world in terms of tone and mechanics, especially for a player who for whatever reason may be averse to tweaking rules, circumstances on the fly? On a superficial level mosker , I would suggest any solo written for T&T could easily be converted for use with the M!M! 2.0 rules. Whether you're truly playing Monsters! Monsters! at this point is open to question and this why I have called my first two converted solos; Skyship and Soul Survivor Monsters! Monsters! compatible. I hope to be able to do the same with several more of TMG's smaller solos in due course. To make something already written for T&T have more of the M!M! feel of say Thessaly's Buzzard Gulch products would take a great deal more effort. I certainly plan to produce something for Zimrala but from scratch
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trolletgunnar
4th Level Troll
A Swedish player who holds the Tunnels and trolls banner high.
Posts: 379
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Post by trolletgunnar on Apr 5, 2023 5:13:05 GMT -5
My original intention was to play it with the M!M! rules but due to absent mindedness I ended up using a sort of hybrid version. I don't think there is anything which would cause too many problems. Actually it would be interesting to do a complete reversal of the central theme, ie make it about a so-called "monster" heroically defending her territory from a dastardly group of "Delvers" (thieves and robbers). Now there's a thought. The poor monsters must defend themselves from the murdering Hobos!
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Post by ProfGremlin on Apr 5, 2023 6:02:40 GMT -5
Actually it would be interesting to do a complete reversal of the central theme, ie make it about a so-called "monster" heroically defending her territory from a dastardly group of "Delvers" (thieves and robbers). Now there's a thought. Jim C. Hines writes an adventure trilogy about Jig the Goblin that is pretty much exactly that. I thoroughly enjoyed reading those and his fractured fairy tales, The Princess SeriesMight be useful for a bit of inspiration? Goblin Quest
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Post by houndle on Apr 9, 2023 13:05:59 GMT -5
An interesting few minutes today in the Temple of Issoth with Beau D'ill XIVth.
I was using M!M! rules, fighting a couple of meanies who were a good match for Beau - similar dice and adds. The thing was, these chaps were wearing armour and the only way Beau could make a dent in them was to score Spite. But, since rolling Spite M!M! style tends to lower the raw combat score every combat roll was a tense moment as Beau strove to inflict some damage without being overwhelmed by the enemy's hit point total. This felt quite different to T&T combat (in a good way); the tension between raw combat score and Spite really seemed to add some depth and prevented the encounter from being a walkover.
I allowed Beau some saving rolls representing stunts to deflect the Spite being scored against him. Otherwise he would have been ground down quite rapidly. As it was the combat lasted 17 turns until Beau rolled a fumble and one of the enemies, himself nearly spent, found a critical chink in Beau's armour... too bad. Beau XVth is gearing up for battle.
Edit (i) Thinking about it, if I'd used the M!M! "chaos factor" rule Beau could have changed the 2,1 fumble to a 2,2 and possibly DARO'd his way out of trouble.
Edit (ii) On reflection, that feels a bit cheesy. My house rule (which is a direct contradiction to the actual rules); "chaos" cannot avoid (or create) a fumble. The other way feels a little too powerful to me. (Possibly why the Zimrala version is also slightly different.)
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Post by houndle on Apr 10, 2023 9:47:41 GMT -5
Escaping the Saucy Lad This is based on a short solo I wrote a while ago which has never appeared anywhere. I wanted to test how well it stood up to random choices. It also gives me the comfort of knowing that (a) I don't have to worry about spoilers and (b) I won't have to apologise to the author for any offence caused...
Beau D'ill XVth wakes up aboard the pirate ship Saucy Lad. The chain which bound him to his position on the Gun Deck has been severed by a cannon ball, and he is temporarily free of his long confinement. Now he needs to get off the ship before it's pounded into fragments by the bombardment it is still receiving.
As Beau looks around, a Dhesiri gun captain demands his assistance in returning the enemy's fire. With luck the Saucy Lad might still escape and Beau can be returned to slavery. "Not blooming likely!" says Beau and sets about the Dhesiri with his chain. Beau quickly disposes of him (in strictness his stats are slightly too high for the solo), rips off his badge of office and takes possession of his slow match.
Beau then goes forrard to the crew quarters, but finds it not to his liking being on fire. He goes below to the hold, which is half submerged. Searching for the source of the leak, Beau looks on in horror as the hull begins to splinter. A quick search reveals nothing except an angry octopus which Beau dispatches and a lump of lead, part of the hull sheathing.
Beau returns to the crew quarters where he finds a lucky charm (which will eventually prove important) and climbs up to the focsle. Nothing there except cannon balls whizzing past his head, so he goes aft to the main deck. There a Dhesiri officer sends him aloft to trim the sails. Somehow he manages this without plunging to his doom and returns to the deck in time to see the officer decapitated by a cannon ball. Fighting breaks out on the ship as the crew panic and Beau flees to the poop deck.
There he meets the First Officer (a big Uruk) who spots the piece of lead, panics and gives the order to abandon ship - leaving Beau to his fate. Beau objects to this and immediately attacks the Uruk, defeats him and launches the lifeboat with the aid of four sturdy crew.
The rations soon run out and the crew draw lots to decide who will feed the others. Beau is lucky on the first two days, but his name is drawn on the third day at which point he fights the other crew members. At last, with his belly rumbling (and his Charisma reduced due to his treachery) he lands on a desert island...
Not even I am arrogant enough to mark my own homework! I did spot a couple of typos which was annoying, and one link which didn't work quite right (things are happening "offstage" during the solo and the route chosen by the dice included a reference to a conversation which hadn't yet taken place). As I hoped, Beau was able to win the fights reasonably easily but still took some damage due to drowning (what happened in the hold was slightly more complicated than the narrative suggests). I'd probably also clarify a few things about the octopus fight and the final scene. (Beau was quite lucky - courtesy of the lucky charm - to strike land before he ran out of comrades to eat.)
I have a feeling there may be a structural issue to consider as well; there are actually four ways to get off the ship, but three of them (including a Big Boss confrontation) seem to be quite hard to get to.
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Post by houndle on Apr 18, 2023 5:24:25 GMT -5
Thersites* and the Minotaur I'm slowly acquiring some of the "classic" T&T solos I missed out on when I was a lad. Labyrinth is the latest one I tried.
I won't presume to describe it here as it's probably very familiar territory to many people on Trollbridge. I did post a review on DriveThru as it didn't seem to have one. The review includes a little gauntlet thrown down, Micawber-like, at the feet of the current owners. Basically saying that it's not a bad solo but needs significant updating and it would be interesting to see other solos based around mythology from various ancient cultures. At the back of my mind I have this dream of branding T&T as an educational product. (It's also crossed my mind to write to our Prime Minister to suggest the T&T combat system is the perfect way to make maths fun in our schools.)
*Yes my character was called Thersites. With an IQ of 6 and Charisma 5 it was the obvious choice.
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Post by ProfGremlin on Apr 18, 2023 19:22:33 GMT -5
Thersites* and the Minotaur(It's also crossed my mind to write to our Prime Minister to suggest the T&T combat system is the perfect way to make maths fun in our schools.) A friend of mine once used a Battletech championship as a way for active duty U.S. Army to fulfill one of their requirements for strategy and tactics. The pitch was made to the post commander who was intrigued and signed off on it - with the stipulation that they win. W e l l ... they didn't. They did learn a valuable lesson in not underestimating their opponent when my friend trounced them. The post commander had a few things to say when he found out that not only did they not win, they lost to a girl.
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Post by houndle on May 15, 2023 11:53:53 GMT -5
Sword for Hire
This solo always seems to get a pretty good write up and is evidently remembered by many with great affection. The version on DriveThru doesn't seem to have been fully updated but I had no problems using it with dT&T rules. As the solo is likely to be familiar I'll go straight to my thoughts.
Balance Somewhat variable. In common with certain other old-school solos the use of a d6 to set the difficulty level of certain combats may result in a walkover or an impossible struggle. On the other hand, the possibility of gaining allies was an excellent idea for its time and brought some tough opponents into the realms of possibility. The number of paragraphs of the "suddenly you're obliterated" type seemed a little bit excessive. It wasn't in fact until I was re-starting for the fourth time that I suddenly realised I had turned to the wrong page in my notebook and was using a character that should have been way too powerful for the adventure. Sudden destruction is no respecter of character level. Having finally got to the end, the AP awards and treasure felt a bit too generous; I would have preferred slightly less deadliness and slightly less treasure.
Content Enough to keep me going for a fair while, though that included several do-overs. Although a generous Wandering Monster chart adds variety, there are a number of trap rooms which are only worth repeating until you succeed. Note to self/challenge to solo writers: how to create a trap room which is different each time without being purely random? Possibly some kind of seed number generated at the start of the adventure to direct character down a variety of paths? Or a "legacy" style setup where a trap doesn't reset when sprung but changes to some different state when the next adventurer enters? Possibility with an electronic document, maybe trickier with paper. Ultimately the adventure looks to be fairly linear with a couple of branches to collect additional swag.
Credibility Given the basic situation of exploring a mad wizard's dungeons, anything goes. Some of the encounters do strain the credulity, but that was the way things were done at the time.
Internal consistency Mechanically it all seems to fit together properly. The business about allies was a nice unifying theme that came off pretty well most of the time. There were a few points at which choices seemed a trifle forced (and one or two where the only choices available were bad ones). It's still an enjoyable adventure and could easily be updated / extended to bring it into line with more modern solos. Something for the new owners to consider perhaps.
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mosker
5th Level Troll
Posts: 530
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Post by mosker on May 15, 2023 19:15:07 GMT -5
Sword for HireContent Note to self/challenge to solo writers: how to create a trap room which is different each time without being purely random? Possibly some kind of seed number generated at the start of the adventure to direct character down a variety of paths? Or a "legacy" style setup where a trap doesn't reset when sprung but changes to some different state when the next adventurer enters? Possibility with an electronic document, maybe trickier with paper Rick Loomis, not even an avid RPG person (or perhaps because of it), was so ahead of his time with Buffalo Castle. "Write something for a future adventurer to find." The "seed" idea could simply be: (# paragraphs reached % total number of trap variations) with adjustments for repeats ("Get to the same place? Start moving up or down the list until you reach something not checked off...) And of course some of those "traps" should have good effects so players don't go out of their way to avoid the room and they aren't railroaded into it. #GlassHousesDave
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trolletgunnar
4th Level Troll
A Swedish player who holds the Tunnels and trolls banner high.
Posts: 379
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Post by trolletgunnar on May 16, 2023 3:56:19 GMT -5
Sword for HireThis solo always seems to get a pretty good write up and is evidently remembered by many with great affection. The version on DriveThru doesn't seem to have been fully updated but I had no problems using it with dT&T rules. As the solo is likely to be familiar I'll go straight to my thoughts. Balance Somewhat variable. In common with certain other old-school solos the use of a d6 to set the difficulty level of certain combats may result in a walkover or an impossible struggle. On the other hand, the possibility of gaining allies was an excellent idea for its time and brought some tough opponents into the realms of possibility. The number of paragraphs of the "suddenly you're obliterated" type seemed a little bit excessive. It wasn't in fact until I was re-starting for the fourth time that I suddenly realised I had turned to the wrong page in my notebook and was using a character that should have been way too powerful for the adventure. Sudden destruction is no respecter of character level. Having finally got to the end, the AP awards and treasure felt a bit too generous; I would have preferred slightly less deadliness and slightly less treasure. Content Enough to keep me going for a fair while, though that included several do-overs. Although a generous Wandering Monster chart adds variety, there are a number of trap rooms which are only worth repeating until you succeed. Note to self/challenge to solo writers: how to create a trap room which is different each time without being purely random? Possibly some kind of seed number generated at the start of the adventure to direct character down a variety of paths? Or a "legacy" style setup where a trap doesn't reset when sprung but changes to some different state when the next adventurer enters? Possibility with an electronic document, maybe trickier with paper. Ultimately the adventure looks to be fairly linear with a couple of branches to collect additional swag. Credibility Given the basic situation of exploring a mad wizard's dungeons, anything goes. Some of the encounters do strain the credulity, but that was the way things were done at the time. Internal consistency Mechanically it all seems to fit together properly. The business about allies was a nice unifying theme that came off pretty well most of the time. There were a few points at which choices seemed a trifle forced (and one or two where the only choices available were bad ones). It's still an enjoyable adventure and could easily be updated / extended to bring it into line with more modern solos. Something for the new owners to consider perhaps. I find myself going back to Sword for hire and Bluefrog tavern; I do not really know why. Maybe it is beacuse of the humorus side-kick, that gives even a mediocre character a chance to beat the dungeon?
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Post by houndle on May 20, 2023 12:21:19 GMT -5
I find myself going back to Sword for hire and Bluefrog tavern; I do not reallty know why. Maybe it is beacuse of the humorus side-kick, that gives even a mediocre character a chance to beat the dungeon? That encouraged me to buy a copy of Blue Frog Tavern. Not got very far with it yet. Seems a logical follow-on. In view of the news about T&T I am actively restraining myself from writing some new rooms for Labyrinth; so far I have ideas for three different philosophers, some stuff based on the Odyssey and a few other things.
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mosker
5th Level Troll
Posts: 530
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Post by mosker on May 20, 2023 12:51:55 GMT -5
I find myself going back to Sword for hire and Bluefrog tavern; I do not reallty know why. Maybe it is beacuse of the humorus side-kick, that gives even a mediocre character a chance to beat the dungeon? That encouraged me to buy a copy of Blue Frog Tavern. Not got very far with it yet. Seems a logical follow-on. In view of the news about T&T I am actively restraining myself from writing some new rooms for Labyrinth; so far I have ideas for three different philosophers, some stuff based on the Odyssey and a few other things. When this first came up I started thinking about the novels of Madeline Miller and Mary Renault and their take on the Labyrinth...maybe a M!M! adventure with bull dancers and sacrificial teens and everything...
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trolletgunnar
4th Level Troll
A Swedish player who holds the Tunnels and trolls banner high.
Posts: 379
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Post by trolletgunnar on May 22, 2023 4:56:06 GMT -5
That encouraged me to buy a copy of Blue Frog Tavern. Not got very far with it yet. Seems a logical follow-on. In view of the news about T&T I am actively restraining myself from writing some new rooms for Labyrinth; so far I have ideas for three different philosophers, some stuff based on the Odyssey and a few other things. When this first came up I started thinking about the novels of Madeline Miller and Mary Renault and their take on the Labyrinth...maybe a M!M! adventure with bull dancers and sacrificial teens and everything... I am a fan of adventures with a ancient greek touch, so bring on the minotaures, dancing dryads, sacrifices to the gods and everything. Maybe a expansion for gaming in the antiquties would be in place?
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Post by houndle on May 22, 2023 12:39:40 GMT -5
Maybe a expansion for gaming in the antiquties would be in place? It's often struck me as odd that the weapon charts for T&T are taken from such a mixture of different cultures. (As well as some which are just made up.) I know it's fantasy and we can do what we want, but the amateur historian in me sometimes balks at the idea of an adventurer using an assemblage of kit from different continents. Though when I think about what I spent on GURPS supplements... Here's another question. How do people handle character advancement during solo prep? What I mean is, if the solo requires a 3rd level character and you don't have one to hand, do you recycle an old one from some kind of library of the heroically fallen? Try to work a new character up to the requisite level? Or "generate" a higher level character, either randomly or by allocating bonus points? Are there advantages/ disadvantages of each approach? And if you use the "generation" game, how much detail do you put into the character - is it a fully rounded adventurer or closer to a bare minimum set of attributes?
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Post by nialldubh on May 22, 2023 13:50:14 GMT -5
You could in theory take the required Combat Adds asked for and divide by 4 (or 3 if using 5E).
So if it states +30 CA or lower. That means do not go into dungeon with a poor dolt of +7 adds.
So what we have +7/+8 on average.
STR 20, DEX 19, SPD 19 and LK 20.
This could also look like: STR 24, DEX 15, SPD 15 and LK 24 or something, and roll the usual 3d6 for other attributes.
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