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Post by zanshin on Apr 11, 2023 3:53:57 GMT -5
So, if we do have a sufficient groundswell of interest in a regular Troll based magazine, using Monsters! Monsters! as a core, what are the preconditions? IMO 1) A clear agreement from Steve and Ken that a fan based zine producing Monsters! Monsters! compatible material would be accepted and not interfered with. 2) An online publisher (calling Tavernmasters!) 3) Someone who would do all the Quogmyre stuff (layout, preparing for publication and ++++) 4) Buy in from fellow bridge denizens 5) A new name Comments and contributions on all these welcomed. I would also be open to contacting the contributors to 12 & 13 as to whether they would be open to the reusing of their material for the new zine, or a refashioning of the zines as the new M! M! compatible zine. Over to the bridge.
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Post by nebless on Apr 11, 2023 8:34:52 GMT -5
I've no interest in Monsters! Monsters! at all. Playing as a monster just doesn't speak to me. I'll stick to the adventuring life.
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Post by rashathetimid on Apr 11, 2023 9:20:47 GMT -5
I've no interest in Monsters! Monsters! at all. Playing as a monster just doesn't speak to me. I'll stick to the adventuring life As I understand and from what I have read, it's the same rules and you can play human too. There are Hobb, Elves, and Dwarves on the Monsters! Monsters! Peters-Mcallister chart too. It's only the name that change. You can play monters in T&T too So, if we do have a sufficient groundswell of interest in a regular Troll based magazine, using Monsters! Monsters! as a core, what are the preconditions? IMO (...) 5) A new name] Comments and contributions on all these welcomed. Sounds a great idea! My I suggest Monsterszine of Zimrala or Trollzine of Zimrala or Tunnels of Zimrala ?
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darrght
4th Level Troll
Wow, I'm a 4th Level Troll!
Posts: 447
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Post by darrght on Apr 11, 2023 9:46:43 GMT -5
You know zanshin that you can count on The TavernMasters to host the new iteration of "Trollszine" AND I, personally, am up for any writing/editing/illustrating work that may be required of me. What I am incapable of doing is the layout work that quoghmyre always did with such aplomb I have no doubt that Ken and Steve will be happy to support our endeavours Perhaps we should run a competition for the renaming? How about just plain Monsterzine? Or Tunnels & Monsterzine? Or how about DAROzine?
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darrght
4th Level Troll
Wow, I'm a 4th Level Troll!
Posts: 447
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Post by darrght on Apr 11, 2023 9:50:15 GMT -5
I've no interest in Monsters! Monsters! at all. Playing as a monster just doesn't speak to me. I'll stick to the adventuring life. rashathetimid is correct nebless , there is not much difference between the two games. If you're a 5th edition accolyte, there's even less to differentiate them
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Post by houndle on Apr 11, 2023 10:02:32 GMT -5
I've no interest in Monsters! Monsters! at all. Playing as a monster just doesn't speak to me. I'll stick to the adventuring life. rashathetimid is correct nebless , there is not much difference between the two games. If you're a 5th edition accolyte, there's even less to differentiate them Mechanically I agree (to the point where I hope we aren't going to see an IP wrangle somewhere down the track); conceptually there is something "different" about being a monster, which may lead to the players having a different kind of experience. (I'm put in mind of Paddy Griffith's World War 2 RPG of many years ago where each PC had different objectives... some of which might include "looking busy" without ever getting in a fight.) I can see why some people won't be comfortable with playing monsters, though it's a diverse world... maybe Gandalf should have made more effort to understand Saruman's point of view...
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tp
3rd Level Troll
Posts: 237
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Post by tp on Apr 11, 2023 10:20:12 GMT -5
I'd be up for writing something for a new iteration. I might even be up for doing layouts depending on the length of it, and turnaround. Personally I think the new name should have Troll in it somewhere, to keep continuity with the old Zine and also to reiterate that M!M! stuff can be used for T&T.
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darrght
4th Level Troll
Wow, I'm a 4th Level Troll!
Posts: 447
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Post by darrght on Apr 11, 2023 10:23:11 GMT -5
Agreed houndle , there is a different 'feel' to M!M! but if you were to play TMG's new M!M!-compatible solo The Skyship of Lord Orink you wouldn't really notice much difference
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darrght
4th Level Troll
Wow, I'm a 4th Level Troll!
Posts: 447
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Post by darrght on Apr 11, 2023 10:25:08 GMT -5
How about Trollsterzine!?
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Post by houndle on Apr 11, 2023 10:31:52 GMT -5
Agreed houndle , there is a different 'feel' to M!M! but if you were to play TMG's new M!M!-compatible solo The Skyship of Lord Orink you wouldn't really notice much difference darrght, I will add to my shopping list!
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Post by zanshin on Apr 11, 2023 10:41:11 GMT -5
Monsterzine appeals, Monsterzine! even more I think anything alluding to others worlds (Zimrala etc) is probably best avoided in the title, but would be overjoyed to have content set there, or any leopard based continent. Darrghts generous offer would of course be snapped up by me. As houndle wisely said, being a monster can be a matter of perspective - certainly in classic Trollworld places like Khazan were like a less cuddly Zootopia (Zootropolis in the UK).
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mosker
5th Level Troll
Posts: 533
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Post by mosker on Apr 11, 2023 11:57:28 GMT -5
EDIT: Final section added I've now tabled two extensive (at least in my head) posts stemming from my re-reading of Trollszines and just what made them so great. Astonishingly so. They're even better than my rose-colored nostalgia for the fandom that kept the game going.
What I (and clearly am projecting pompously to we) need to full grasp is how the player, potential player, and 1st party publisher ecosystems of M!M! are vastly different from any eras of T&T...or are they? It's the visionS thing at play. Frankly, I've been toying with something more structured, mentioned it to Steve elsewhere.
I also think that the differences between M!M! and T&T (any edition) should not be overlooked. M!M! is much more a vision (one of the big four has gone on record calling it what Ken wanted for DT&T) than simply a T&T SRD with Steve and Ken's world(s)views wrapped tightly around it.
I also think I deserve an award to near-pointless vagueposting and subtext. Will try to explain later, but as this thread has taken off so soon and so fast.
And I'm still game for contributing.
Perhaps greater importance Steve's talked about the next edition M!M!. That matters, especially if the next zine contributors hope to connect with more than their own core audience. What will change? What is being added? Deleted? Who will communicate what and when? Yes, we're talking about nearly 50 years of homebrew culture, but a solid foundation, point of reference...
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Post by zanshin on Apr 11, 2023 12:18:38 GMT -5
M! M! currently has... Savings rolls, big cloud of fists combat, the 'classic' stats and some Monster chrome - Chaos factor, different spells.
I don't have to squint much to see my beloved game.
I appreciate the kind words about Trollszine Mosker, very much so. Fandom has collided with the corporate world, and this is my , current, way of maintaining my motivation to create and facilitate others in their creation.
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mosker
5th Level Troll
Posts: 533
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Post by mosker on Apr 11, 2023 15:28:33 GMT -5
rashathetimid is correct nebless , there is not much difference between the two games. If you're a 5th edition accolyte, there's even less to differentiate them Mechanically I agree (to the point where I hope we aren't going to see an IP wrangle somewhere down the track); conceptually there is something "different" about being a monster, which may lead to the players having a different kind of experience. (I'm put in mind of Paddy Griffith's World War 2 RPG of many years ago where each PC had different objectives... some of which might include "looking busy" without ever getting in a fight.) I can see why some people won't be comfortable with playing monsters, though it's a diverse world... maybe Gandalf should have made more effort to understand Saruman's point of view... As to nebless and houndle 's respective points, this is one of the reasons I began this thread: trollbridge.proboards.com/thread/4218/soliciting-thoughts-design-tone-coreYes, decades have past, but from the earliest solos (Buffalo Castle, Deathtrap Equalizer Dungeon, Labyrinth)--and continued until the latest issue of Trollszine (space exploration separate from even New Khazan!)--for all of the talk of Khazan and Gull and Trollworld, T&T has been not just setting independent, but aside from the high-personality spell names practically an SRD in terms of tone, style etc. Monsters!Monsters! in a way reminds me of Runequest--yes, you can vere toward Basic Roleplaying (a much later addition), but do people play RQ not in Glorantha? However much the players may ignore it, first party publishing determines so much explicitly, implicitly and generally. I think of one of the achievements of Thessaly Chace's Buzzard's Gulch is that while it maintains her own distinct authorial voice, it absolutely belongs at the main table in Ken and Steve's house of M!M! (Table/house? RQ? Is April botched metaphor month?)
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Post by houndle on Apr 11, 2023 23:57:39 GMT -5
...and indeed, different threads on this very forum demonstrate how people have changed the spell names to suit their personal vision. It seems that ultimately, little is sacrosanct except the emphasis on creativity and having a good time.
To return to the original question, I would certainly welcome a continuation of TZ in whatever form. I'm very grateful and a little bit awed by those who have crafted previous editions.
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