dungeondevil
3rd Level Troll
Give me grain and I'll give you guns!
Posts: 216
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Post by dungeondevil on Aug 3, 2024 12:05:55 GMT -5
Yes, Gandalf and Bilbo keep the trolls so occupied and arguing that they don't notice the sun rising. The excellent fantasy animated series "Hilda" also has the sun (temporarily) turning trolls into stone. I'll keep my eye on the Hilda show. Never before heard of it.
I'm far less concerned with the setting as with fundamental rules issues. If they keep 90%+ of the base rules, I won't object. E.g. if they went from a d6 dice pool mechanic to d20, 2d20, percentiles, or other systems, that would substantially impact the flavour of the rules. If I want the core mechanic to be d20, I'll just play That Other Game (TOG). Including more Germanic/Scandinavian folklore into the mix is right down my alley, as that was my major in college. It's a pity that Rebellion won't hire American developers for this project.
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Post by Rat Salad on Aug 3, 2024 13:20:02 GMT -5
I'll be looking at it when it's completed, but probably will just stick to the early editions. I'm starting to wear down at my age chasing new products. It'll be hard to improve on what's already been done in T&T. Deluxe is really nice, and even it is "on the border" for me as being manageable at the table. Setting rarely matters to me, as I always play my own ideas in that arena, so I can't imagine what can happen to make the rules more appealing than what's already there. It is my hope, however, that others take right to it, and it helps in the legacy of the product line!
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Post by gringnr on Aug 11, 2024 14:30:57 GMT -5
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Post by Aramis of Erak on Aug 11, 2024 18:41:41 GMT -5
I believe I mentioned that I expected a change to counting successes instead of summing dice in combat. (apparently, I redacted that from my post on page 3.) Aside from the most likely elimination of or massive reduction of the weapon adds, and probable reduction of personal adds...
I did explicitly mention count successes on page 7, back in december of 2023.
Counting successes is usually faster than summation of dice. Despite similar sizes of dice pools with only d10s, Storyteller system has always been faster to resolve than AEG's Roll-and-Keep (L5R 1e-4e, 7th Sea 1e). And thats without considering the rare occasions where which to keep matters (namely, when needing to capture a foe, not kill them).
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makbai
Lurker under the Bridge
Posts: 7
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Post by makbai on Aug 12, 2024 1:59:06 GMT -5
Rebellion has its own "rpg line" already: "Adventure presents". For attribute tests you role 3d6 and depending on the value of the tested attribute remove (or not) one of the dice and sum up the other. This is compared to an difficulty. Melee is handled as an attribute test but the results of both sides are compared and the difference is the damage taken by the losing side.
This is very much inspired by T&T. But everything is balanced, values are very low (4 attributes with values 1,2,3 and 4... signaling which dice to remove from the throw), players may raise their hand above their head to signal to pause the game ... you know safety. Very un-T&T that. Grimtooth is not welcomed here.
I'm not sure that "we have trolls and there are tunnels" is much of an lore, so throwing away the T&T rules and adding a bland setting would be the wet dream of everyone who hates T&T. And there are quite a few, even today. Look on the output of "rpg historians" and you will understand. One of the great things of T&T was the sky's the limit approach. I don't see this here but maybe we will still get positively suprised.
In 2005 we already got the "alternative rules". Remember the pips? But then Ken could still control the game and gave us T&T 7.
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sharps54
Lurker under the Bridge
Posts: 2
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Post by sharps54 on Aug 12, 2024 6:50:47 GMT -5
Which is a shame because if any game should have a history written, preferably one that covers the in world lure development as well as the real world developers and contributors, it is T&T. Time is also of the essence if first person accounts are to be captured.
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dungeondevil
3rd Level Troll
Give me grain and I'll give you guns!
Posts: 216
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Post by dungeondevil on Aug 12, 2024 21:34:26 GMT -5
No, not encouraging at all. By the pricking of my thumbs...
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dungeondevil
3rd Level Troll
Give me grain and I'll give you guns!
Posts: 216
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Post by dungeondevil on Aug 12, 2024 21:41:49 GMT -5
Maybe they are going to use Spite, and counting a # of sixes to determine combat outcome.
One side rolls 6's....# of 6's are damage dealt to opponent. Both sides roll 6's...# of 6's are damage dealt to their respective opponents. Nobody rolls any 6's...a stand-off; nobody deals damage (yet).
Perhaps they may expand that (for higher-level PCs) to rolling both 5's and 6's.
What do you think? Will that work?
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Post by Rat Salad on Aug 13, 2024 1:08:10 GMT -5
It's all speculation of course, but I had hoped that maybe just a repackage of the product in order to market a "new version" of the game would get it done, but I honestly knew big changes would happen to it, and it won't be for me. It always happens in the history of the hobby. It took me a long time to figure out that buying an "update" or a brand new system (and there's a TON of 'em now) was part of the reason I wasn't getting enough time in making good in-depth dungeons for my players. I'm not going back...I'm sticking with what I know works, and investing my creative time in making dungeons/adventures to enjoy by my players, using rules that I know work and are dead simple.
I just don't want to try to switch out to any new game systems. I just want to play what I already know and enjoy. For some, that won't bother them, but I don't see any "improvements" from messing with the mechanics. All that causes is headaches and time investment for me that I simply don't have. Nope. T&T is a classic just as it is, and 4th and 5th is all I'll ever need to get on with things.
To each his own, however!
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kwll
4th Level Troll
Posts: 258
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Post by kwll on Aug 13, 2024 3:36:43 GMT -5
Maybe they are going to use Spite, and counting a # of sixes to determine combat outcome. One side rolls 6's....# of 6's are damage dealt to opponent. Both sides roll 6's...# of 6's are damage dealt to their respective opponents. Nobody rolls any 6's...a stand-off; nobody deals damage (yet). Perhaps they may expand that (for higher-level PCs) to rolling both 5's and 6's. What do you think? Will that work? Either that or a system more akin to Shadowrun, counting the number of successes to simply figure out who wins the round. But then how will damage be determined? In your proposal, how do you factor in armor? I have given a great deal of thought over the years to using a dice pool system in T&T for combat (I like to dabble with game mechanics), but I always stumble over these questions. The system as-is can be computation intensive, but very simple in concept and quick in that everything is determined in one roll. Changing it to add more rolls or more factors in the computation is not necessarily a gain... Plus it will be a challenge to maintain compatibility with already published material. Just my 2 cts...
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dungeondevil
3rd Level Troll
Give me grain and I'll give you guns!
Posts: 216
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Post by dungeondevil on Aug 13, 2024 20:21:34 GMT -5
Maybe they are going to use Spite, and counting a # of sixes to determine combat outcome. One side rolls 6's....# of 6's are damage dealt to opponent. Both sides roll 6's...# of 6's are damage dealt to their respective opponents. Nobody rolls any 6's...a stand-off; nobody deals damage (yet). Perhaps they may expand that (for higher-level PCs) to rolling both 5's and 6's. What do you think? Will that work? Either that or a system more akin to Shadowrun, counting the number of successes to simply figure out who wins the round. But then how will damage be determined? In your proposal, how do you factor in armor? I have given a great deal of thought over the years to using a dice pool system in T&T for combat (I like to dabble with game mechanics), but I always stumble over these questions. The system as-is can be computation intensive, but very simple in concept and quick in that everything is determined in one roll. Changing it to add more rolls or more factors in the computation is not necessarily a gain... Plus it will be a challenge to maintain compatibility with already published material. Just my 2 cts... Great questions.
I agree that counting up handfuls of dice is a big PITA, but we gamers are getting older and suffer from Old Person Is Old Syndrome: we are looking at change (dare I call it innovation?) less favourably.
DAMAGE: maybe each 6 deals x number of damage points (depending upon a PC's overall level and/or weapon-type). Perhaps as multipliers:
puny weapon: x0.5
small weapon: x1 medium/average weapon: x2 large weapon: x3 very large weapon: x4 huge weapon: x5 gartanguan weapon: x6 colossal weapon: x7
etc.
Thus, if three sixes result out of the rolled pool of dice, and the PC is using a medium weapon, the damage dealt is six damage points.
Magic may pump up the above multipliers. E.g. an average sword would double the number of 6's and therefore damage, and a magic one-handed sword may instead treble or quadruple the multiplier.
ARMOUR: a given armour-type may deduct one or more 6's from the attacker's # of 6's rolled out of the pool. E.g. I'm getting hit by my opponent; he has rolled four sixes granting him, say, 16 damage points against me (thus, 4 damage points per 6). However, I'm wearing a chainmail hauberk, which deducts two 6's from the other player's roll, halving the damage dealt.
leather armour...-1 six. chainmail..........-2 sixes. plate................-3 sixes. shield...............-1 six. helm................-1 six.
N.B.: I haven't playtested any of this, obviously. Just some random ruminations. My studies of Spite and dice-pool probabilities come into play here, and would have to be carefully considered.
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Post by Aramis of Erak on Aug 14, 2024 2:41:11 GMT -5
Great questions. I agree that counting up handfuls of dice is a big PITA, but we gamers are getting older and suffer from Old Person Is Old Syndrome: we are looking at change (dare I call it innovation?) less favourably. DAMAGE: maybe each 6 deals x number of damage points (depending upon a PC's overall level and/or weapon-type). Perhaps as multipliers:
I've had similar thoughts, but I expect Type to set the success number... Warrior at maybe 4-6, Rogue at 5-6, Wiz at 6... Just divide the armor vales by 2 or 3... The rash of "success on 6's" games (a couple Warhammer RPGs, most of the Year Zero Engine games, several others) often have reroll rules to account for the annoyingly low success rates. FWIW, I look forward to seeing it. (Edit: I know that those numbers are not appropriate for T&T as we know it... I expect a non-grasping that it's Rogue WIzard, not theif.)
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kwll
4th Level Troll
Posts: 258
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Post by kwll on Aug 14, 2024 3:34:10 GMT -5
All good ideas, but again you are dramatically changing the rules, and this triggers even more questions: how do you determine the number of dice used by monsters from MR (and their damage multiplier)? How do you handle group combat? Do you compare the number of successes to figure out who wins the round, or the amount of damage? What about combat adds?
My point being, if you are using one of the many already published solo or scenario, how do you adapt it to this new system?
I am also curious to know how they will tackle it.
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dungeondevil
3rd Level Troll
Give me grain and I'll give you guns!
Posts: 216
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Post by dungeondevil on Aug 14, 2024 20:58:28 GMT -5
Great questions. I agree that counting up handfuls of dice is a big PITA, but we gamers are getting older and suffer from Old Person Is Old Syndrome: we are looking at change (dare I call it innovation?) less favourably. DAMAGE: maybe each 6 deals x number of damage points (depending upon a PC's overall level and/or weapon-type). Perhaps as multipliers:
I've had similar thoughts, but I expect Type to set the success number... Warrior at maybe 4-6, Rogue at 5-6, Wiz at 6... Just divide the armor vales by 2 or 3... I like it!
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Post by Aramis of Erak on Aug 15, 2024 6:25:28 GMT -5
All good ideas, but again you are dramatically changing the rules, and this triggers even more questions: how do you determine the number of dice used by monsters from MR (and their damage multiplier)? How do you handle group combat? Do you compare the number of successes to figure out who wins the round, or the amount of damage? What about combat adds? If using my numbers? Monsters without explicit types are all rogues (so 5-6), and I'd make adds 1/5 the MR (so twice the dice code), My point being, if you are using one of the many already published solo or scenario, how do you adapt it to this new system? There are many ways... but I'm lazy, so I like to minimize the at-the-table effort. I am also curious to know how they will tackle it. If they do it well, and include a conversion guide, it should do well. If they don't, we'll have M!M! for a good while...
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