kwll
4th Level Troll
Posts: 258
|
Post by kwll on Aug 15, 2024 7:56:29 GMT -5
All good ideas, but again you are dramatically changing the rules, and this triggers even more questions: how do you determine the number of dice used by monsters from MR (and their damage multiplier)? How do you handle group combat? Do you compare the number of successes to figure out who wins the round, or the amount of damage? What about combat adds? If using my numbers? Monsters without explicit types are all rogues (so 5-6), and I'd make adds 1/5 the MR (so twice the dice code), Would you do the same for spell damage (especially TTYF)? Strangely enough, I came up with the same formula for obtaining dice from MR, even if I would go a different way to differentiate character types and damage computation.
|
|
|
Post by Aramis of Erak on Aug 15, 2024 23:41:37 GMT -5
If using my numbers? Monsters without explicit types are all rogues (so 5-6), and I'd make adds 1/5 the MR (so twice the dice code), Would you do the same for spell damage (especially TTYF)? no. TTYF I'd use IQ*Level as MR... give it the random factor it always lacked.
|
|
dungeondevil
3rd Level Troll
Give me grain and I'll give you guns!
Posts: 216
|
Post by dungeondevil on Aug 15, 2024 23:54:32 GMT -5
This is all speculation, of course, but it does illustrate the challenges that Rebellion face in making significant alterations to the core mechanics. Changing the setting is relatively trivial, and may be an improvement.
|
|
sscrompton
4th Level Troll
One of the members of the Fellowship of the Troll. Worked on dT&T with Ken, Liz, Bear & Rick.
Posts: 450
|
Post by sscrompton on Aug 18, 2024 1:30:07 GMT -5
Trying to guess the details on how they are going to design the new version of T&T will be tricky. Certainly we can guess the overall direction. My guess is still that it is going to be a game for 10 to 13 year olds and meant to be a beginning game for people who have never played an rpg before. I do not have any more information than the rest of you though, so it is just a guess.
From a marketing standpoint the other main RPGs do not seem to have done much in that direction, so maybe they see this as a way to grow a fanbase quickly. We'll see...
Steve
|
|
|
Post by Aramis of Erak on Aug 18, 2024 4:23:15 GMT -5
Trying to guess the details on how they are going to design the new version of T&T will be tricky. Certainly we can guess the overall direction. My guess is still that it is going to be a game for 10 to 13 year olds and meant to be a beginning game for people who have never played an rpg before. I do not have any more information than the rest of you though, so it is just a guess. From a marketing standpoint the other main RPGs do not seem to have done much in that direction, so maybe they see this as a way to grow a fanbase quickly. We'll see... Steve Keep in mind: T&T 5e was equally good as a game for 10-13 YO as anything actually targeting it. Ken's writing, coupled to Liz's editing, resulted in a suitable text reading level for 10+ YO. Which is why a lot of us now-greying types a decade or two behind you picked it up in the first place. (Well, I, myself, didn't, as I didn't encounter it until a couple years later, thanks to a friend introducing me to it and selling me his spare black with gold boxed set. But many others did.) I was 17 when I was shown T&T. Loved it since. Don't knock a game just because it's accessibly written for the younger crowd; by accident or intent, Ken's T&T was just that after Liz got done with it.
|
|
dungeondevil
3rd Level Troll
Give me grain and I'll give you guns!
Posts: 216
|
Post by dungeondevil on Aug 18, 2024 11:38:15 GMT -5
I hate to break it to you, but most 10 to 13 year olds play video games, apps on their smartphones, etc. The overwhelming majority have no inkling what an RPG is except a rocket-propelled grenade.
|
|
|
Post by Rat Salad on Aug 18, 2024 14:19:53 GMT -5
I can only speak from my own experience, but I agree. There is little audience for the 10-13 year old age bracket for any table-top rpg. I'm not saying none, but very little based upon what I see. There was back in 1979, when I got started, but I don't see that today. I work at a university, and from I witness that's about the age these days where it might come into play, and even then it's always D&D or Pathfinder. I have many friends that teach in public school, and I've asked them about kids and the games they play, and they agree. I'm not saying NONE (so cool yer jets if you disagree).
When the college students see T&T on my desk, they are literally mystified. Most don't even realize that games existed much before those two big-league games, and few know the history of the hobby. I taught a lecture course once on the history of ttrpgs...the entire class was surprised to hear the history. Even at the college level, you are talking about a small group of people that play regularly (and so far, it's either 5th edition or Pathfinder) in compared with those that do other things on their phones or video games.
I realize that my experience at a small university in a small, rural town in Texas doesn't represent everywhere, but I'm feel confident that it isn't a whole lot different elsewhere. If that was the marketing strategy (for this country, at least), then that would be even a goofier business decision than shifting the entire substructure of the game!
|
|
|
Post by Aramis of Erak on Aug 19, 2024 3:45:36 GMT -5
I hate to break it to you, but most 10 to 13 year olds play video games, apps on their smartphones, etc. The overwhelming majority have no inkling what an RPG is except a rocket-propelled grenade. Wrong. Or, not at least according to my experiences as an elementary teacher to 2016. Most of the kids knew about D&D; over a third had played Palladium - either Rifts or Fantasy. Low Income neighborhood. Always a crowd at the local pawn shop which rotates Palladium books through new owners. When I was teaching 5th and 6th grade, a third of my students played TT RPGs. More wanted to. A lot of younger kids are aware of D&D. Just before lockdown, there were around 10 kids under 12 playing D&D at my FLGS. the false assumptions about youth are a bit of a pet peeve; I spent 15 years teaching Elementary in various capacities. Every school I've worked has had Pokémon and MTG players, and at least some awareness of RPGs. There's plenty of online discussion. Likewise, my youngest, now 20, was far from the only RPGer in their rural school. According to the principal, there were about 10. He himself was thrilled that they were playing D&D; he, himself, was a former RPGer. As was the Librarian. And the History and the Science teacher. As a percentage, more are likely aware of D&D than at any prior point; it's all over the social media platforms at a level only even rivaled by the height of the Satanic Panic... but well without the negative image. And more are playing now than ever. Both in absolute numbers and percentage.
|
|
mosker
5th Level Troll
Posts: 598
|
Post by mosker on Aug 19, 2024 9:58:46 GMT -5
Glass half full+:
[Disclaimer for total supposition] 1. Interest in the new product will drive up interest in the M!M! lines "What's Ken been up to?"
2. The project lead comes from board games (see Joyride), and doing those well means playtesting until you've bled out and then some, while RPG-centric approach may make "the GM will figure it out" or "it's all in the table's 'contract'" approach to rules. T&T w/o houserules may not seem like T&T but the better suited the game is for RAW (rules as written), the better chance of it sticking with new players, especially those new to RPGs.
3. There were other collaborators, yes, but who wants Trollworld without Ken's guidance? I'm glad they're doing something different. If they work out a deal so Ken can bring it back to M!M!/H!H! (like Trollgodfather press has a lot of T&T products available on DTRPG), even better.
4. Anyone else get a slight Dungeon! vibe off what little we know? I've seen some attempts, but I've always felt the basic and apparently retained core mechanic of the attribute based SR might work well in a board game...I'm intrigued...and though my wish-list takes up volumes, still optimistic.
|
|
dungeondevil
3rd Level Troll
Give me grain and I'll give you guns!
Posts: 216
|
Post by dungeondevil on Aug 19, 2024 14:28:55 GMT -5
I taught a lecture course once on the history of ttrpgs...the entire class was surprised to hear the history... Now, that is a class I would have stayed awake for in college!
|
|
|
Post by Rat Salad on Aug 19, 2024 15:21:15 GMT -5
It was a lot of fun. Full films in class on the movie screen ("Fire & Ice", "Wizards", "Heavy Metal", "Conan the Barbarian", etc., etc.)...lectures on Frank Frazetta and Boris Vallejo...role-playing games, etc. It was a great class!
|
|
|
Post by stevemitchell on Aug 19, 2024 19:14:10 GMT -5
And to think I spent my time in college studying Kant and Hegel. . . .
|
|
|
Post by Rat Salad on Aug 19, 2024 19:37:43 GMT -5
Ha, ha...well, we do that too. My class is an elective course where we look at art in popular culture, mainly cinema. I try to teach them historical parallels of things that were happening at the time culturally...cultural trends in entertainment...and how that has an effect on the directions that that the arts might take, generally speaking.
|
|
|
Post by Rat Salad on Aug 19, 2024 19:49:33 GMT -5
...mainly film-makers take the course from our cinematography department.
|
|
kwll
4th Level Troll
Posts: 258
|
Post by kwll on Aug 20, 2024 3:28:10 GMT -5
It was a lot of fun. Full films in class on the movie screen ("Fire & Ice", "Wizards", "Heavy Metal", "Conan the Barbarian", etc., etc.)...lectures on Frank Frazetta and Boris Vallejo...role-playing games, etc. It was a great class! Do you have any collateral you can share from this course (without getting anyone into any trouble)? I am intrigued as well.
|
|