machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Jan 2, 2010 19:37:13 GMT -5
Uh-oh. 'K. I'll be hopeful. However, I do indeed have to agree with Quogh, both with regards to contribution and a blog and whatnot...and especially on the matter of an "advanced T&T" line of reasoning. I hope this isn't the beginning of the end. The point where I've no choice but to jump ship to another game....... Sorry, I'm just inherently a pessimist. On the other hand: adventures, supplements, a printed and 'for pay' magazine? All very, very, very good things!  |
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Post by wilowisp on Jan 2, 2010 20:37:05 GMT -5
I hope this isn't the beginning of the end. The point where I've no choice but to jump ship to another game....... Why would you do that? If not another product was ever released for purchase, I still think I could run T&T indefinitely. Its sheer simplicity makes it easier than any other fantasy game I can think of to create for..........  |
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Post by mahrundl on Jan 2, 2010 20:59:09 GMT -5
While I hope that Quog is being unduly pessimistic about illustriouslife's business, I suspect that at the very least he's right about the level of demand for 'Advanced' T & T. That sort of thing usually just ends up adding more complexity, and I think that would just spoil the wonderful simplicity that T & T has going for it.
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Jan 2, 2010 21:21:32 GMT -5
I hope this isn't the beginning of the end. The point where I've no choice but to jump ship to another game....... Why would you do that? If not another product was ever released for purchase, I still think I could run T&T indefinitely. Its sheer simplicity makes it easier than any other fantasy game I can think of to create for.......... You're right. It isn't that something would be suddenly wrong with 5th ed. or that the game being dead or out-of-print would change my table. What I mean is, if the game is wrested and man-handled by someone(s) that don't understand it, into something that isn't what it is/can be/should be (like what, IMHO happened with 7.x), then it would be so incredibly disheartening that I'm realistic enough to know my spirits would be so deflated as to give the game overall a sad feel in my heart and bad taste in my mouth. Make better sense? I realize it's probably reactionary and illogical. It's just the way I feel. |
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Post by illustriouslife on Jan 2, 2010 23:04:52 GMT -5
Hey guys,
Still the n00b here - but let me clarify my language and hopefully get some heart rates back to normal. Sorry for saying "Advanced T&T" - I guess I'm still trying to figure out what rules system it would be best to publish under, or if there could be something developed using the 5th edition (or earlier) as a solid foundation with some further exploration on a few concepts - this could also just come with an expansion to the game. Honestly, I love T&Ts simplicity, but perhaps it is the depth of content to the world of the game (or, the need for an alternate world) that needs some explanation. Can you imagine the game in a well presented Horror Fantasy setting, or a Spelljammer-esque Space Opera Fantasy setting? All while keeping the games simplicity and sense of humor intact and in place.
I would hate anyone to think I've just shown up to say "Here's what I'm doing to the game" - no way! You guys all have plenty of experience with the game and have a lot of good input so I'm really just interested in working with people to seek a common vision and secure a hopeful future for the game - perhaps introduce it to more folks than ever before. It *is*, after all, a very easy to learn and fun to play game - not to mention it's 35 year history.
I'm only looking to enrich the game as much as possible - but I'm taking baby steps getting there. What I would *like* to do is publish some already-existing T&T projects and work on some new ones - also, Outlaw regularly published zines for the game and I would like to start something similar (since I don't foresee many contributions going to OP anytime soon), but all in good time.
The website? In the works - this is the first step in a new project of mine. A business which releases and distributes interesting and worthwhile things which have fallen through the cracks the world over - T&T is a special part of this as it, in my mind, represents the basic of art of rpgs (and all of their beauty and appeal as well), so it's the first step for me since this whole OP thing happened suddenly and, well, I'm ready for some new material for the game!
If you want to know more about me I wrote in the "Introduce Yourself" thread!
phew...that was a long one, hope it all makes sense, I'm half distracted by some Richard Pryor stand up on TV.
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Jan 3, 2010 7:07:41 GMT -5
*breathes sigh of relief*  Alright. Thanks for the further clarification, illustriouslife. I understand better now what you're attempting and hoping to do. I certainly wish you luck with this. I've little doubt the creative crew here would pitch in opinions, views and likely material if such is to your liking. |
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Post by stonewolf on Jan 3, 2010 15:00:32 GMT -5
I would hate anyone to think I've just shown up to say "Here's what I'm doing to the game" - no way! You guys all have plenty of experience with the game and have a lot of good input so I'm really just interested in working with people to seek a common vision and secure a hopeful future for the game - perhaps introduce it to more folks than ever before. It *is*, after all, a very easy to learn and fun to play game - not to mention it's 35 year history. Whew! I was ready to run out the door screaming until you clarified things with this post. I personally would be happy with no more "reprints" of rules...the game has lasted 35 years, I do not feel that a restaement is in order, but I would so love a legitimate fan-zine to read and support this awesome game! I also appreciate any supplement material that's new and original! So I will be more than happy to support a well produced product, as long as it's "kosher" with all the legal bases covered. |
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Post by illustriouslife on Jan 3, 2010 15:54:38 GMT -5
Whew! I was ready to run out the door screaming until you clarified things with this post. I personally would be happy with no more "reprints" of rules...the game has lasted 35 years, I do not feel that a restaement is in order, but I would so love a legitimate fan-zine to read and support this awesome game! I also appreciate any supplement material that's new and original! So I will be more than happy to support a well produced product, as long as it's "kosher" with all the legal bases covered. A legit fanzine is certainly a good idea, with lots of usable material - I think that bi-monthly would work. Also - more solo adventures, possibly in "compendium" form so you get more bang for your buck. Also, you're right, the games lasted for 35 years so who needs more rules. With all these editions floating around (7.5, 5.5, 6th, modified 4th) it leaves me with one big, important question - "Which of these systems would be best for expansion?" That is, not to be made into AT&T but rather what would best suit new adventures and campaign settings which would require versatile rules that fit into multiple settings. Make sense? I'd love to hear anyone's opinion. This is coming together very well! Making headway daily. |
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lostheretic
2nd Level Troll
Unpublished Author, Published Poet
Posts: 74
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Post by lostheretic on Jan 3, 2010 17:02:35 GMT -5
5th Edition seems to be the favorite here on Trollbridge. That said, it seems like a lot of folks on RPG.net have started looking into 7th/7.5.
I'd recommend you take a look at some business models that have been used past and present and consider which would be best for your business and T&T. TSR had D&D and AD&D. White Wolf has the corebook/fatsplat method. WotC uses a hardcover supplement treadmill.
Honestly, it seems like the core 5th edition rules are solid, maybe you shouldn't tweak them at all. Perhaps providing books with setting-specific optional rules would be best?
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Post by feldrik on Jan 3, 2010 20:58:09 GMT -5
I agree, no rules changes or tweaks to the core mechanics.
The rules of 5E (as the example) do not need to be changed but 25 years of play test gives a better perspective on what needs to be emphasized.
A bit more to clarify that SRs are essential in combat, for instance. The combat system is a sticking point for new players, the SR system can be made more clearly a part of the rules of combat.
It is mentioned that Wizard's can invent their own spells but modern gamers expect some guidelines be provided to support the implication.
I may be underestimating new gamers but I am also thinking that T&T, if released as if it were a new game would gain some prominence.
Edit: It would be nice to move the rest of this to some other thread since we are now off topic.
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Post by zanshin on Jan 4, 2010 13:13:44 GMT -5
Back on topic, mail from Ken St Andre
Greetings,
While the vote is not final, the consensus is that Shipy retain his membership in Trollhalla.
Some have said that by not expelling him, we condone his actions.
I'd like to make it clear that the membership of Trollhalla does not condone any illegal actions done by "that company". However, nothing has yet been proven in a court of law and in the U.S. we hold people innocent until proven guilty.
(We also wish that Mr. "that guy" would work harder to demonstrate his own innocence, or contrition or something. Hiding is not the way to handle this problem.)
At Trollhalla we have taken the following actions against "that company".
1. I have asked all members of Trollhalla to stop contributing material to future publications. There may be material in the pipeline that still appears, but "that company" will not be getting anything else from me.
2. I have removed the link to "that company" that was on Trollhalla. That doesn't mean much since O.P. seems to have gone out of business anyway, but we did it before the web site vanished.
Since it is difficult to defend oneself on the web, I would ask that members of Trollhalla who are involved with other web venues republish this letter there. I'd like to see this letter republished on the rpgnet forum, at the Trollbridge, and anywhere else where it would show that Trollhalla does not condone the illegal use of other people's work.
Grimly,
Ken St. Andre
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Post by sonofthor on Jan 4, 2010 14:22:54 GMT -5
IllustriousLife, I look forward to seeing what transpires.
Thanks for clarifying the AT&T info, I kind of gulped when I first read it.
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Hogscape
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
It's not the years, it's the mileage.
Posts: 2,126
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Post by Hogscape on Jan 5, 2010 21:12:27 GMT -5
We don't know what FD has planed for 7E - they might can the project tomorrow or keep plugging away in short bursts as they have done (3 releases in 4 years I think). 5E is still seems to have legs...
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machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
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Post by machfront on Jan 5, 2010 23:31:13 GMT -5
We don't know what FD has planed for 7E - they might can the project tomorrow or keep plugging away in short bursts as they have done (3 releases in 4 years I think). 5E is still seems to have legs... For real. As it is, the entirety of their last "new" release was old "that company" stuff. Let us recall that this release is the only release in over a year from FDP. Not just release, but the only support...heck, the only mere mention from them for over a year. Out of "supporting" T&T for a total of almost five years they've managed to release...the rules. *claps* Specifically: 1.The rules. 2. The rules cleaned up as they should have been to begin with and still aren't done. and 3. A supplement of previously released stuff. Stuff from someone who stole most of their stuff. Stuff from someone who's no longer in business anymore and even if they were FDP wouldn't work with anyway...so where will they get their material to support T&T when next they release something....two or three years from now. Please.  |
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uburoi
4th Level Troll
Rarr 'n' stuff.
Posts: 486
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Post by uburoi on Jan 5, 2010 23:37:29 GMT -5
For those of you not on the Trollhalla mailing list - it's official: "that guy" is persona non grata with respect to Trollhalla.
Amazing how the mood turned against "that guy" in just the last day or so. It seems to have been the letter from Rick Loomis pointing out that "friends of T&T" don't steal stuff an make money off it that sealed the deal.
As I said a few weeks back, stick a fork in him, he's done. And so is "that company", an understatement if there ever was.
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