|
Post by ragnorakk on Sept 27, 2009 17:05:12 GMT -5
heh heh
|
|
Hogscape
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
It's not the years, it's the mileage.
Posts: 2,126
|
Post by Hogscape on Sept 28, 2009 2:58:27 GMT -5
I wouldn't describe the current situation as "support"... more "failure to actively undermine"... Good point, well made. Funny too... And sad. It doesn't make any sense for Ken and FD to support 5e when no one is publishing it.
|
|
|
Post by Aramis of Erak on Sept 28, 2009 3:18:56 GMT -5
Last I checked (1 min ago) FBI still has 5.5 in stock.
|
|
|
Post by grrraall on Sept 28, 2009 3:23:46 GMT -5
Ken is really making efforts to promote T&T. He writes articles, solos (did you play TROLLGOD'S EXCITING RANDOM ROOMS OF RUINATION? It's awsome, far better than DED!), GM adventures. He participated actively in both TrollCons and wrote specific material for those events and he runs Trollhalla, amongst other things. Lots of T&T fans are trying their best to write valuable contributions. Not all of them are very good, but on average, they're not doing bad! For example, many new T&T solos are better than some old ones.
IMO, establishing a distinction between 5E and 7E is largely artificial, since there are not that many differences between the 2 set of rules. You can take a new character and send him in DED applying the new 7E rules and that won't make a big difference.
|
|
Hogscape
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
It's not the years, it's the mileage.
Posts: 2,126
|
Post by Hogscape on Sept 28, 2009 4:21:50 GMT -5
Grrraall, agreed. You can use material written for either game, with either game. Ultimately, 5e is dead and buried because 7e exists... They are very, very similar games but they have a different feel and style about them. It's difficult to describe and probably all about nostalgia rather than 'style' but I really wish Ken had taken the the existing 5e text and added the 7e bits to it. FD would have been left with a more marketable and inclusive product.
At the moment we have a divided fanbase - it seems that a number of players favour the older editions over the new. Moulding 5e into a new version would have been a better bet but I guess Rick would have had to relinquish the rights to 5e or stump up the cash for a new game himself. Ah well...
Aramis - yes, I'm sure Rick has more copies of 5e - I ordered 2 from my local game-store and they (finally) agreed to get them in - I'm picking them up Tuesday (huzzah)! But what are the chances he would order another print run? Pretty slender I guess?
|
|
|
Post by jongjungbu on Sept 28, 2009 10:54:56 GMT -5
FBI probably has some 5.5 in stock, or did, as you can still add to cart off their website. I bought my fresh new copy of 5.5 from Paizo.com (just the rulebook). They still have it in stock. Not trying to plug them, but I am quite satisfied with the speed and the condition. I will have to try this. I am NOT a fan of DED. I gave it 1 out of 5 stars on the short review I wrote on my website. But, I'll play any of the solos. Some new solos specifically say 7e but I use 5e anyway. don't see a problem. Edit: Actually, I already have Trollgod's Exciting Random Rooms of Ruination. LOL. I forgot! It's at the bottom of the pile, and yet, I have still yet to run a character through it.
|
|
machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
|
Post by machfront on Sept 30, 2009 8:10:27 GMT -5
(cynical and angry post removed)
Nevermind.
|
|
koraq
4th Level Troll
Posts: 355
|
Post by koraq on Sept 30, 2009 14:47:16 GMT -5
Well, we can discuss the faults and merits of 5th ed and 7th ed until the sun goes out. But, the fact remains that T&T is in print, and picking it up and using it with old stuff is not a PITA.
Also, spreading the word and joining the fans behind one T&T brand is an important wish in all these discussions of a clone, right? So. Is it really meaningful to talk of a cloning effort yet? Who knows if Rick can afford to print a variant of 5th ed again? He wont release T&T under the OGL and he will gladly give permissions to people who want to publish T&T stuff. I know, since I got it. It's not like the crown jewels are locked in a ivory tower. Almost the opposite in fact.
I'd love to see a OGL T&T, but I wonder if this is the time to do it.
|
|
machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
|
Post by machfront on Sept 30, 2009 19:15:24 GMT -5
I'd love to see a OGL T&T, but I wonder if this is the time to do it. Very likely not it would seem, as some people here think that front-loading their house rules or preferred 'fixes' constitutes a clone.
|
|
|
Post by Aramis of Erak on Sept 30, 2009 21:38:42 GMT -5
5.5 uses 8 atts. 5.5 is 5.0+Ken's House Rules, as published by FBI. It's as official as 5.0. It is a different edition.
The thing is, Machfront, Every clone out there is preloaded with someone's house rules... simply because they have made interpretations of vagueries, and in order to make it distinct. I've read a half-dozen OD&D clones, and none of them is a 100% of OD&D. Neat thing about a clone: "Don't like it? Don't use it!"
And generally, most are open licensed... so you have another option: "Don't like it? Modify it to taste and rerelease it under another name."
|
|
koraq
4th Level Troll
Posts: 355
|
Post by koraq on Oct 1, 2009 2:46:38 GMT -5
Well. If you have to do it, each do one and have them duke it out in the marketplace. I'm solidly on the same side as Machfront here. Also, doing it basic means you can do a Advanced or Expert addition later. That's "support" like everyone is clamoring for.
|
|
machfront
11th level Troll
Stalwart of the Trollbridge
"Let's go dark!"
Posts: 2,147
|
Post by machfront on Oct 1, 2009 4:37:39 GMT -5
5.5 uses 8 atts. 5.5 is 5.0+Ken's House Rules, as published by FBI. It's as official as 5.0. It is a different edition. I understand your point of view, I just disagree with it. I don't think, despite it's name, that it's a true and different edition. It just has fully optional material in the back that the older 5th didn't. The thing is, Machfront, Every clone out there is preloaded with someone's house rules... simply because they have made interpretations of vagueries, and in order to make it distinct. I've read a half-dozen OD&D clones, and none of them is a 100% of OD&D. Some more than others, yes. But, I don't know how many times I have to say it: NONE can be or will be 100% because that would be illegal. LL is as close as one can get, practically. No additions or changes were done to disrupt the game or done arbitrarily or because Mr. Proctor thought it would be cool, or he just 'dug it' that way. Very near all of LL's differences were just and only because of legal issues. Heck, he didn't even give Sleep an area of effect, leaving it to interpretation, just as B/X. This is a spell that can and has caused much debate to nail down how it 'should be' interpreted. But he left it there for better or worse.
|
|
|
Post by Toad-Killer-Dog on Oct 1, 2009 8:11:06 GMT -5
"Warning minor thread-jack in progress"
"Labyrinth Lord" even kept the things nobody thought were a good idea, like reduced stats for females & level caps for non-humans? ( Unless your a bloody Elf of course )
Jeez I played a fair bit of "AD&D" in my time, but only the most rabid "Gygaxian" used all of those.
Pardon, just a bit of a shock really.
"We now return you to your on-topic & relevant thread posts "
|
|
|
Post by apeloverage on Oct 1, 2009 8:56:23 GMT -5
Both OSRIC and Labyrinth Lord have level limits for non-humans, but neither have different ability ranges for male and female characters.
|
|
|
Post by apeloverage on Oct 1, 2009 8:58:26 GMT -5
By the way, I wouldn't use the Open Game License (a document written specifically for the d20 rules by Wizards of the Coast) - I'd use a Creative Commons license.
|
|